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Talk Shows and
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Talk Shows : Care Cast: Cancer in the Workplace
Recorded February 26, 2002
Care Cast: Cancer in the Workplace
Welcome and Participant Introductions
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Jamie Reno:
Hi, everybody. Welcome to Carecast. This is a live Internet broadcast
brought to you by the Cancer Survivors Network. It's a free service from
your American Cancer Society. My name is Jamie Reno and I'm really,
really happy to be here today. A quick introduction: I am the San Diego
correspondent for Newsweek Magazine. I have been with Newsweek for about
ten years and I've written extensively about cancer and cancer-related
issues for Newsweek and other magazines. I also am a singer/songwriter
with two successful solo albums and a third one on the way. And most
importantly for this discussion, I am a cancer survivor. I was diagnosed
with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma five years ago. I did chemotherapy in 1996,
late '96, and I did a clinical trial of the monoclonal antibody called
BEXXAR® in 1999 when the cancer recurred. I am in remission, thankfully,
but I do have the kind of cancer that will most likely keep coming back,
so I obviously am very interested in all of these related issues.
Today the topic is a very important one. It's cancer in the workplace,
and I'm sure everyone who has had cancer or known someone with cancer
knows that this is a very, very important issue to discuss. Everybody has
to deal with the working world. Joining me today by phone are our four
guests for this conversation, and four very, very interesting people, four
cancer survivors from across the country, although we do seem to have
somewhat of a Midwestern slant today.
First of all, I'd like to tell you what we're going to be talking about
with our guests. Among other things, we'll be talking about the
expectations for job performance after cancer, after diagnosis;
supervisors who don't understand; the positives, such as supportive
coworkers and having a productive work life; your rights and
responsibilities as a worker; reasonable job accommodations; and of
course, the ever-present [laughing] health insurance issues. So, let's
get on with it.
Our first guest is Janet. She is a cancer survivor from Nebraska,
which is next door to my home state of Iowa. Janet is divorced and has
three kids, two girls, 18 and 12, and a boy 15. She is 44 and works for
an insurance company. I'm sorry, she worked for an insurance company, and
we'll get into that in just a moment. Welcome to the show, Janet.
Janet:
Thank you very much.
Jamie Reno:
Good to have you here. Let me just quickly go over your background here.
In September of 2000 you visited the doctor.
Janet:
Mm-hmm.
Jamie Reno:
And after an exam, you were told that you had a large cervical tumor.
Correct?
Janet:
Right.
Jamie Reno:
It was recommended that you treat it immediately. Your oncologist wanted
you to begin chemo right away to reduce the tumor's size so it could be
removed surgically. Correct?
Janet:
Right.
Jamie Reno:
However, the clinical trial you were in randomly selected you for surgery
only.
Janet:
Yes.
Jamie Reno:
You had an abdominal hysterectomy as well as the removal of some lymph
nodes. That completed your treatment for the cancer, but complications
from the surgery have left you with several difficult conditions that have
affected your life both at work and at home.
Janet:
Yes.
Jamie Reno:
Correct?
Janet:
Yes, very much so.
Jamie Reno:
Thank you very much for joining us, Janet.
Janet:
Thank you.
Jamie Reno:
We also might want to mention that you were recently terminated. Is that
correct?
Janet:
Yes. The first of February.
Jamie Reno:
Right, and you are now looking for other work?
Janet:
Yes.
Jamie Reno:
Okay. We'll get more into that as we move along. Janet, it's great to
have you here.
Janet:
Thanks.
Jamie Reno:
Our next guest is Mark, a 43-year-old cancer survivor from Wisconsin, and
a major Packers' fan who works in manufacturing. Mark is married, has a
16-year-old son. Welcome to the program, Mark.
Mark:
Thank you for having me.
Jamie Reno:
It's good to have you here.
Mark:
Glad to be here.
Jamie Reno:
Quick background on Mark's history. At the end of 2000 you stopped
working at your job because you were feeling very ill. Is that
correct?
Mark:
Actually, it was January of 2000.
Jamie Reno:
January, okay. Well, okay. Thank you for correcting me here.
Mark:
Sure.
Jamie Reno:
At the beginning of 2001, you were experiencing a persistent bad cough.
Doctors thought it might be pneumonia, but it did not get any better.
You were given a chest x-ray and then given a biopsy. The diagnosis was
lung cancer and you were treated with chemo. Five months after this
treatment, you experienced a recurrence and are now getting chemo again.
Is that correct?
Mark:
Yes, that's correct.
Jamie Reno:
Mark, thank you very much for being with us today.
Mark:
Well, thank you for having me.
Jamie Reno:
I appreciate your being here.
Mark:
Glad to be here.
Jamie Reno:
Also I must add, might want to add that you were actually also terminated,
correct?
Mark:
Yes.
Jamie Reno:
In January?
Mark:
January of this year, yes.
Jamie Reno:
Okay, and now you were also, obviously, having--dealing with the same
issues of struggling with employment and health issues as well.
Mark:
Right. Health insurance is a big one.
Jamie Reno:
Health insurance?
Mark:
Yes.
Jamie Reno:
Good. Well, let's get into that as we move along. Mark, thanks so much
for being here.
Mark:
Thank you.
Jamie Reno:
Our next guest is Karen, who is a 30-year-old cancer survivor from
Minnesota Hi, Karen.
Karen:
Hi, Jamie.
Jamie Reno:
Karen is a legal secretary, has one child, a boy. In October of 2000
Karen visited a doctor in Georgia, where you were living at the time,
correct?
Karen:
Correct.
Jamie Reno:
You had a pain in your left breast. The doctor told you it was a muscle
strain and that it would heal. After moving back to Minnesota, you still
had the strain. A doctor there said it was definitely not a muscle
strain. Immediately you went in for a mammogram and also had a biopsy.
Fourteen hours later, you found out it was stage III breast cancer. Is
that correct?
Karen:
Yes, Jamie.
Jamie Reno:
Treatment was a bilateral mastectomy followed by rounds of chemo. You
were able to recuperate at home for a month because fellow employees--and
this is a wonderful, wonderful thing--fellow employees donated sick leave
to you. Is that right?
Karen:
That's correct.
Jamie Reno:
You came back to work during your chemo and radiation treatments, which
were completed in October of 2001. Is that correct?
Karen:
Correct.
Jamie Reno:
You just passed your one-year anniversary and are cancer-free. Is that
correct?
Karen:
I did! Hooray!
Jamie Reno:
Thank you. That's congratulations! Thanks for being here, Karen.
Karen:
Thanks, Jamie, for having me.
Jamie Reno:
Oh, my pleasure. Now, our fourth guest is Glenda, a 56-year-old cancer
survivor from Oregon. The only non-Midwesterner in the bunch today. Hi,
Glenda.
Glenda:
Hi there.
Jamie Reno:
How are you?
Glenda:
Alive and well, thank you.
Jamie Reno:
Thank you very much for joining us. Glenda is married with adult
children, and currently has her own law practice with a focus on helping
people who have been discriminated against at work because of their
cancer. A very worthy, worthy profession, I would say. In '95 you
recognized a peculiarity in your breast, but you didn't get it checked out
right away. Is that right?
Glenda:
That's correct. I walked around with a strange dent in my breast for six
months.
Jamie Reno:
Your mom, who had been diagnosed with breast cancer the year before,
suggested you see a doctor, and then you ultimately did. Correct?
Glenda:
Yes.
Jamie Reno:
You didn't feel overly concerned because you had seven years of clean
mammograms, but after an exam your doctors immediately sent you for a
biopsy, and breast cancer was confirmed. Your treatment was a bilateral
mastectomy and three months of chemo. On the way home from the doctor's
office, after you received your diagnosis, you were in a terrible car
accident, and said the recovering from this, you said that recovering from
it was worse than the surgery and the chemo. Is that right?
Glenda:
Absolutely.
Jamie Reno:
Eventually you had reconstructive surgery. Now, thank you so much for
being here, Glenda. I appreciate it.
Glenda:
It's an honor.
Returning to Work as a Cancer Survivor
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Jamie Reno:
Let's talk about expectations first for job performance after diagnosis.
I know from my experience--a quick story. I am fortunate enough that I
work at home. I write for Newsweek, but I work in my home, and
immediately after my chemo I was up and I actually did do some work during
my chemotherapy, but immediately after it, I was up and running again at
home, but I don't think I could have done this--I don't think I'd still be
with the magazine today had I been forced to go into an office every day.
Karen, let me ask you. What kind of job performance expectations did you
have for yourself when you went back to work?
Karen:
This is Karen. My expectation for myself was to basically go on everyday
life.
Jamie Reno:
Mm-hmm.
Karen:
I had a great support system. I'm young. I was only at my job for a
month and a half--
Jamie Reno:
Really?
Karen:
--when I was diagnosed, and my insurance had kicked in on January 1st of
2001.
Jamie Reno:
Mm-hmm.
Karen:
I was diagnosed January 9th of 2001.
Jamie Reno:
Wow!
Karen:
Thank God for health insurance.
Jamie Reno:
Yeah, no kidding! Now you just barely made that window, then.
Karen:
I did.
Jamie Reno:
Yeah.
Karen:
And I have angels or something.
Jamie Reno:
[laughs]
Karen:
But I worked pretty much full-time through my whole treatment.
Jamie Reno:
Mm-hmm.
Karen:
Chemo didn't affect me like a lot of people.
Jamie Reno:
That's terrific.
Karen:
If I needed a nap, we had a sick room that I could go in, and my employer
didn't mind.
Jamie Reno:
Wow! Janet, how about you? What kind of expectations did you have for
yourself when you went back to work?
Janet:
I hoped to have gone back full-time, but with all the complications that
I'd had from my surgery. I was in the hospital three different times
before I actually got to go back to work, like six months later.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Janet:
I fully expected to be able to go back full-time and be a full-time
employee, and the whole nine yards. Due to, in part, problems from the
surgery, ended up with the doctor telling me that I'm partially disabled,
and you can only work up to twenty hours per week, so--
Jamie Reno:
Even if you want to work more, is that--?
Janet:
Right. Right.
Jamie Reno:
Wow!
Janet:
She'll only let me work twenty hours a week--
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Janet:
--due to I get infections. Out of 14 days, I have an infection 10 out of
14 days.
Jamie Reno:
Really?
Janet:
Yeah.
Jamie Reno:
Does that give you a fever?
Janet:
Yes.
Jamie Reno:
Wow.
Janet:
And I would go to work that way, I mean--
Jamie Reno:
How high of a fever did you have while working?
Janet:
101, 102, I'd go in.
Jamie Reno:
Wow, you're a trooper!
Janet:
[laughs] I figured, you know, four hours, I can stand it.
Jamie Reno:
Right. Glenda, how about you? What kind of expectations did you have in
the fact of going back to work?
Glenda:
I would have expected to go back to work full-time from the cancer, but
the auto accident caused problems.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Glenda:
So my insurance paid for a five thousand-dollar custom-made workstation at
home--
Jamie Reno:
Oh, that's terrific!
Glenda:
--and I sought the opportunity to telecommute a couple of days a week
while I was regaining my strength. But that was denied.
Jamie Reno:
Oh!
Glenda:
When I went back to work, the chair that was in front of my work station
was visibly broken and the top was hanging down.
Jamie Reno:
Wow.
Glenda:
Yeah, I received a very welcome support from my coworkers, but my boss had
apparently decided that I was damaged goods.
Jamie Reno:
Wow! Boy!
Glenda:
Maybe he thought I had a double lobotomy instead of a double mastectomy.
I don't know.
Jamie Reno:
[laughs] Had you had this--did you discuss this with him at all?
Glenda:
I went back to my workplace at City Hall in Portland.
Jamie Reno:
Mm-hmm.
Glenda:
Every time between chemo, and every time I faced another surgery, because
I really needed the strength I drew from my coworkers, and I would always
stop in, and my boss was all smiles, yes, yes, yes. And then when the
time came, I lost my job to breast cancer.
Jamie Reno:
Wow. You know, it's amazing that some--as prevalent as cancer is in our
world, it touches everyone's life at some point, it's still rather
remarkable how many employers just don't get it. They don't have a real
good knowledge of the issues related to having cancer. It's just
remarkable. Mark, you had a recurrence five months after your initial
treatment, correct?
Mark:
Yes.
Jamie Reno:
Did you at one time think that you might return to work? I mean, what
were your thoughts?
Mark:
I was feeling good after my chemo, my first round of chemo. I finished it
up in May of last year.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Mark:
And I was feeling good. I was even thinking about going back to work.
Before the cancer I was working two jobs, so I was used to working.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Mark:
Like I said, I was thinking about going back to work. If nothing else, I
was going to try my part-time job, but I got progressively worse with the
fatigue and shortness of breath.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Mark:
And the type of work I was doing, there was no way I'd be able to go back
to work.
Jamie Reno:
What was that? What were you doing?
Mark:
I was working in the factory.
Jamie Reno:
But it was hard work, obviously.
Mark:
Right. A lot of lifting and walking.
Jamie Reno:
Physical work.
Mark:
Yeah, very physical.
Jamie Reno:
Yeah.
Mark:
And unfortunately, I'm just unable to do it, and I'm still having a hard
time dealing with that.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Mark:
I'm a young man, and I'm sitting around trying to figure out what to do
with myself.
Jamie Reno:
It's a major adjustment.
Mark:
It is.
Jamie Reno:
For all of you guys, if you--anyone who wants to chime in here. How did
your employer's expectations of your job performance change? I know one
of you already said that you were treated as damaged goods, but generally
speaking, what were the expectations among your bosses, and how did that
change after your diagnosis? Does anybody want to come in there?
Karen:
This is Karen.
Jamie Reno:
Hi, Karen.
Karen:
The expectations from my employer didn't change at all. They were
basically happy to see me every day--
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Karen:
--since I work in the support services of a law firm who we help
secretaries who are overloaded. So with me they were just absolutely
wonderful!
Jamie Reno:
That's great. That's great. Is there anything in particular you feel
impacted this change in expectations? This is for all of you also.
Anything like, did they think maybe you were dying or that you were unable
to work? Were there some misconceptions, perhaps, of your condition among
your coworkers or your bosses? Anybody?
Glenda:
In my case my boss--
Jamie Reno:
Who's talking now?
Glenda:
This is Glenda.
Jamie Reno:
Hi, Glenda.
Glenda:
Hi. My boss went--I was almost a pilgrim in the Risk Management Office of
the city because he felt that the combination of my back injury from the
automobile accident and the fact that I'd had that surgery posed a risk to
the city.
Jamie Reno:
So they were worried about legal issues?
Glenda:
That's what he said.
Jamie Reno:
Right. That's what they said. Can we conclude this part by talking about
some lessons that any of you may have learned that others, that people out
there listening should think about regarding their job performance and
expectations from employers? What are some of the lessons here?
Anyone?
Janet:
This is Janet, and I know the expectations that my employer put on me when
I was--when I came back were higher than the people that were actually
working there. [laughs]
Jamie Reno:
Really? Why?
Janet:
Yes.
Jamie Reno:
Why was that, I wonder?
Janet:
I do not know!
Jamie Reno:
Wow.
Janet:
I worked four hours a day and was expected to do more medical claims than
the others that were there for eight hours a day.
Jamie Reno:
Why on earth was that? What do you attribute that to, Janet?
Janet:
I don't know. And see, they would not let me use restroom facilities down
in my building, so I had to walk up two blocks to the bathroom. And they
took that out of my time. I had to make that up when I came back.
[laughs]
Mark:
That's ridiculous.
Jamie Reno:
Janet, let me ask you, what steps did your employer take to move you to
termination? I mean, what were the--
Janet:
They tried to find errors, which weren't there, so then they tried to say
that I was costing the company too much money by being a part-time
employee, and they were paying my full-time benefits. So they kept having
meetings about me [laughs], and they would call me in and say they didn't
know if they wanted to work with me anymore, and finally they just said,
"We can't accommodate your illness. We don't want to keep paying for your
disability. We don't want to pay for any of this."
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Janet:
So they escorted me off the premises. I couldn't even go back and get my
purse or my coat.
Jamie Reno:
You didn't get a fair warning even?
Janet:
Uh-uh. [no]
Jamie Reno:
Wow!
Janet:
No.
Jamie Reno:
Wow!
Janet:
So it was pretty much shock! [laughs]
Jamie Reno:
That's terrible.
Janet:
Yeah.
Jamie Reno:
Did you pursue it at all? Or did you just let it go?
Janet:
It just happened a couple weeks ago, so I'm kind of settling the--
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Janet:
--you know, trying to figure out where I want to go with it.
Jamie Reno:
What do you think--I mean, are you going to pursue this legally, or are
you just going to move on? Do you know yet?
Janet:
Part of me wants to pursue it legally because I don't want this to happen
to somebody else.
Jamie Reno:
Sure.
Janet:
And part of me says I don't know emotionally whether I can go through all,
the hassle of, I don't know, my boss. I mean, he counted how many times I
got up from my chair to go do something.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Janet:
He didn't do that to anybody else. The treatment was way different.
[laughs]
Jamie Reno:
I think it's fair to interject one thing. All of us here empathize with
each other. I think it's fair to say that a lot of employers really try,
but they don't really know how to deal with this, and I think a lot of
this is just misunderstanding. They think to a lot of folks, once a
person has cancer they are branded. They don't--they're not able to work
any more, which is just ridiculous.
Janet:
Right.
Cancer Survivors: Rights in the Workplace
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Jamie Reno:
But I think a lot of people don't realize that. A lot of employers, with
all respect, a lot of employers are just simply ignorant. And I wanted to
ask, on the same subject, supervisors that don't understand, which is kind
of related to what we are already talking about. Do you, or any of you
folks, do you guys feel that the lack of sensitivity is because of this
ignorance, or do you think it's because of the economy? Obviously the
workplace is rather cutthroat. Anybody can chime in here. What do you
think?
Glenda:
I think that there's an awful lot of need for public education on the
potential of people--
Jamie Reno:
Who's talking now?
Glenda:
Glenda!
Jamie Reno:
Thanks, Glenda. [laughs]
Glenda:
My supervisor is no longer supervising anyone, and he no longer works for
the city.
Jamie Reno:
Really?
Glenda:
Yeah, but it didn't help me any.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Glenda:
I'm stuck with thirty thousand dollars in unpaid medical bills. And one
of the things that I knew as this was going on is that the city had
already been through a lengthy cancer death from a female employee--
Jamie Reno:
Wow.
Glenda:
--and that the city was self-insured for health insurance. So, I think
they really just didn't want to face that possibility again. I'm working
on a book about what to do when you come back to the workplace after
cancer.
Jamie Reno:
You're now becoming a source of information. You went through this,
Glenda, and now you're becoming someone who is an expert in this. I mean,
you're writing a book, and yeah, tell us a little bit more about it.
Glenda:
My civil rights law practice deals with employment discrimination. And
the book is going to be called "Breast Work." It has to do with the fact
that women returning to the workplace after cancer, breast cancer, are
five times more likely to have their jobs eliminated or to be laid off
than any other kind of worker.
Jamie Reno:
Wow.
Glenda:
So what is happening is a lot of these cases have reached litigation.
There's a considerable public record, so that we can take the women, who
frankly astound me, because they've just had to literally reinvent
themselves.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Glenda:
They've been shunned out of the workplace, and they're doing that.
Jamie Reno:
That's a remarkable statistic. That is really amazing.
Glenda:
It's a scandal!
Jamie Reno:
Yeah.
Glenda:
And nobody speaks of it. But, I want to put names and faces to the women
who are such heroes, and to the companies who are so callous.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Glenda:
And I also want to put a how-to guide together for people going back after
serious illness or injury, the way you document your return, and almost
make it like a scrapbook, so that it's possible to assemble everything, in
case things go wrong. I happened to have a flash camera with me the day I
went back to my office, and there was the broken chair. I pulled out the
flash camera and took a picture of it because it was outrageous. I'd
hoped to have a happy picture of all my friends and me back celebrating me
with my bald head, but instead it was the chair.
Jamie Reno:
That's important. You know, Mark, I see here that you were in a union,
correct?
Mark:
Yes.
Jamie Reno:
What did you try to do to make your union or your supervisors understand
when you felt like you were maybe terminated? Was there any communication
there? Did you try to--?
Mark:
I talked to a couple of my union reps actually.
Jamie Reno:
What did they say?
Mark:
There was nothing we could do.
Jamie Reno:
Really?
Mark:
They said that that was the agreement between the company and the union
that you are only allowed to be off a year for medical.
Jamie Reno:
That's just in writing then?
Mark:
Right. That's right in the contract.
Jamie Reno:
Okay.
Mark:
So, I was kind of--there wasn't much I could do.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Mark:
I go back and visit and talk to my boss and stuff, and I went back around
Christmastime. They had the big lunch and stuff, and felt like a
celebrity walking around there. Everybody was waving to me and saying,
"Hi." My boss came out, he had a card in his hand, and he actually--I
couldn't believe this. He had tears in his eyes. This was a big, rough,
tough foreman. But he had tears in his eyes, and he handed me the card
and here everybody had taken a big collection for me, and that--
Jamie Reno:
Wow.
Mark:
--really helped me and my family get through Christmas.
Jamie Reno:
Mark, did you feel abandoned? I mean, when you were terminated?
Mark:
Right, yeah.
Jamie Reno:
Did you feel like your union just kind of abandoned you?
Mark:
Yeah. That's--I still feel that now. I was terminated January 22nd. So
it's very recent.
Jamie Reno:
Right. Not that long ago.
Mark:
No. And I'm just now getting information on my COBRA insurance, and the
lesson I really learned was the importance of health care as a benefit
that a company gives to an employee. It's a lot cheaper if you have to
pay as you're working compared to now. I'm paying almost a thousand
dollars a month for family health insurance. I think that's just
ridiculous, but I'm stuck.
Jamie Reno:
Yeah.
Mark:
I can't do anything about it. I got to have the insurance.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Mark:
I'm still undergoing treatment and stuff.
Jamie Reno:
Right. Well, this is obviously an issue that affects everyone who has
cancer, because we all work, or most of us, except for the very fortunate
among us, we all have jobs.
Mark:
Yeah.
Jamie Reno:
Let's move on to something a little bit more positive.
Support from Employers and Coworkers
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Karen:
I just wanted to throw in that, along with my coworkers, my supervisor has
been the most ultimate [boss] any cancer patient or woman with breast
cancer could ever have. She has been my shoulder to cry on. She's
anything that I possibly could need. Time off for doctor's appointments
or if I just needed to rest or go home early because I just wasn't feeling
quite well. She has just been the most understanding woman I've ever
met.
Jamie Reno:
That's terrific. You know, that's--we also have to give credit, for there
are a lot of employers that are sensitive to their employees, and it
sounds like yours is one of them.
Karen:
She is absolutely wonderful.
Jamie Reno:
How long were you at that company before you were diagnosed?
Karen:
A month and a half.
Jamie Reno:
Oh, my goodness. That's amazing!
Karen:
It is amazing. For all of these--I have over 150 people at my law firm
that I work for, and for all of these women and men to contribute six
weeks of sick and vacation time because of course I didn't have any--
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Karen:
--because I was fresh new, and I had no accrued time.
Jamie Reno:
Of course.
Karen:
For all of them to come together and donate their hard-earned sick and
vacation time to me to have paid time off. It was truly amazing!
Jamie Reno:
That's really inspirational. I'm sure that helped you get through all of
this. Obviously.
Karen:
It really did, because the last thing you really want to worry about is
financial issue--
Jamie Reno:
Right, that's what this--
Karen:
--on top of your health issues.
Jamie Reno:
That's what our show today is all about. Obviously, all you want to think
about is getting well--all of us want to think about when we were
diagnosed.
Karen:
Exactly.
Jamie Reno:
And unfortunately, in the real world, the reality strikes, and you have to
think about finances and bills and family and all that stuff, and whatever
help people can give you, it really, really does help. Let's talk about
on that same subject--does anybody have anything else to say about
supervisors and what we've been talking about?
Mark:
This is Mark.
Jamie Reno:
Hi, Mark.
Mark:
Actually, my company was really good to me as far as the people and
management. They were really supportive. I can't really say anything bad
against them. The only bad thing I didn't like is that I didn't even have
an option. I was terminated.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Mark:
And so I wasn't even given a chance to come back.
Jamie Reno:
Would you do anything differently, Mark, if you were starting this whole
thing now? I mean, anything that you may have done differently?
Mark:
I would have had more insurance on my loans. [laughs]
Jamie Reno:
Yeah.
Mark:
But other than that, no, not that I can think of.
Jamie Reno:
It sounds like it was just cut and dried. There was nothing you could do
around that union.
Mark:
Right.
Jamie Reno:
That rule in the union bylaws, right?
Mark:
Right, and it was in the contract and we agreed to it.
Jamie Reno:
I would assume that before you were diagnosed with cancer, you had no idea
about those rules in the--
Mark:
No! No. None of them. No idea.
Jamie Reno:
Yeah. You probably didn't even think about those kind of things, like
none of us do.
Mark:
No. I just figured I was going to do my work until I retired and put in
my time and have a good life, go to retirement. I sure didn't expect this
in my forties.
Jamie Reno:
Right. Well, quickly, I want to talk about, just about the positives.
You guys have all said you had support. Let's talk. Let me ask Karen.
You had the support of both your employer and your coworkers, Karen,
right?
Karen:
Correct.
Jamie Reno:
What has that support meant to you, and what effect does that support have
on how you view yourself within the workplace?
Karen:
I think overall it's helped a whole lot with my self-esteem and my
self-worth. I actually feel like I want to wake up and go to work in the
morning as opposed to some people who dread making that commute and dread
walking into their office to have people shun them. Every morning, people
smile, say "hello." People I don't even know [laughs] know me because of
what has happened.
Jamie Reno:
Yeah, like Mark said, you sort of become a celebrity in your office.
Karen:
I have.
Jamie Reno:
Whether or not you want to be one. [laughs]
Mark:
[laughs] Yeah.
Karen:
Right, and I don't feel bad about that. I think the more I can get out
there and the more information I can give to people, the better other
people are, especially between 20 and 35 where there are no mammograms and
health care hasn't even without--I had no history or anything in my
family. And for something like this to come up, I've become the company
awareness person.
Jamie Reno:
Right. Let me ask you, Janet, well, all of you, but Janet and Mark, both
of you have lost your jobs. Let me ask you how you cope with this loss?
Glenda, of course, is turning it into her advantage, or turning into a
positive. How have you guys coped with it as far as personally and
professionally?
Mark:
This is Mark.
Jamie Reno:
Hi, Mark.
Mark:
Myself, I'm seeing a counselor because I'm still having a hard time
dealing with it.
Jamie Reno:
Right. Is the counselor helping you?
Mark:
Yes, she is.
Jamie Reno:
Good.
Mark:
It seems like my male ego was bruised or something, because I just--you
take away a guy's livelihood and his ability to work, and what is he?
That's what I'm trying to get over.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Mark:
Feeling bad not providing for my family. I think when I did my taxes this
year, we figured out I lost 43% of my income by getting sick. And that's
nothing I can help, you know. It took me a long time, almost six months,
before I could even admit that there's nothing I could do about it.
Jamie Reno:
It's not your fault.
Mark:
No. I couldn't get that through my head at first. [laughs] I felt like
there was something I could have done different, but you can't go back,
and stuff like that. Hindsight.
Jamie Reno:
Now, Janet, aren't you going back to school to get a teacher's
certificate?
Janet:
Yes, I am. I did have a teaching degree a while back, and here in
Nebraska, when I graduated with my teaching degree there were an
overabundance, to put it lightly. They didn't tell you that when you went
through college. So I went into some different fields. But, teaching has
always been something that is my true love. I did a little bit a few
years ago, of working in a behaviorally disturbed room.
Jamie Reno:
Really?
Janet:
[laughs] Yeah. Worked with some one-on-one kids.
Jamie Reno:
What ages were they?
Janet:
They were fourth through sixth grade.
Jamie Reno:
Mm-hmm.
Janet:
But I loved it. The kids actually showed a lot of progress. One of the
parents, I still am in contact with. When I was in the hospital
recuperating from my original surgery, she brought him up to me, and she
said, "Thank you so much. Look at what he's become because you cared
enough that year to spend one-on-one time with my child to make him what
he is today." It just kind of surprised me, and I thought, okay, teaching
is it. I have to get back to teaching.
Jamie Reno:
There is no more noble profession.
Janet:
[laughs] No!
Jamie Reno:
Really, that's true. There isn't.
Janet:
Right, and I love it. Kids are my thing, and so--
Jamie Reno:
How will you deal with it health-wise? How will you be doing it?
Janet:
That, I'm not sure.
Jamie Reno:
Yeah.
Janet:
With my doctor saying I can only work four hours a day, I'm trying to
figure out how I can get teaching in and still be able to, you know, I
don't know.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Janet:
That's the hard part. I figure it's worth a shot to finish it up and talk
to the doctor and see what we can compromise on.
Protecting Your Rights in the Workplace
|
|
Jamie Reno:
Let's move on a little bit. Let's talk about rights and responsibilities
as workers and as people. Glenda, let me start with you, since you're
sort of the expert in this subject. I shouldn't have said "sort of."
You are the expert.
Glenda:
[laughs]
Jamie Reno:
What are some of the first steps that someone should take in finding out
about and protecting their rights within the workplace after you've been
diagnosed, or during your diagnosis?
Glenda:
I think the very first step is to file for FMLA leave. That's leave under
the Family and Medical Leave Act [FMLA]. The papers are with personnel.
Whoever goes up to get that should get a full copy of your personnel
policies and procedures and also full copies of all of your benefits if
you don't have a complete set in your file. Some people do. Some people
don't. So get those immediately.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Glenda:
Also, you should probably contact your local Equal Opportunity Employment
Office because they have brochures and pamphlets that say your rights as
workers and--
Jamie Reno:
And every community, virtually every community has one, correct?
Glenda:
Well, the Federal government is organized into regions.
Jamie Reno:
Okay.
Glenda:
And in some states, you'll find there is an EEOC [Equal Employment
Opportunity Commission] office usually in the capital or a very large
city. Alternatively, like in Oregon, the EEOC contracts with the Oregon
Bureau of Labor and Industries, so you can do both your state and your
EEOC filings there. You want to get the forms. You want to start
sniffing around to find out who does plaintiff's employment law. The easy
way to locate the really good lawyers is to look in the National
Employment Lawyers Association, that's nela.org on the Internet [www.nela.org].
Jamie Reno:
Okay. Is everybody listening? Everybody listening that has web
access?
Glenda:
The thing that you want to do is keep a journal.
Jamie Reno:
Okay.
Glenda:
You want to file all correspondence. You want one of those disposable
flash cameras in your purse. You just never know.
Jamie Reno and Mark:
[laugh]
Jamie Reno:
Now, how do you find information about finding an attorney? How do you do
these things?
Glenda:
Okay, it's very easy--
Jamie Reno:
Well, I'm sorry. I was just going to ask you, how do you do these things
without becoming confrontational to your employer?
Glenda:
Quietly.
Jamie Reno:
Very quietly. Okay.
Glenda:
Yeah. I mean, this is none of their business.
Jamie Reno:
Okay.
Glenda:
But you need to start assembling this file because you may have a glorious
experience going back to work, and I just am so proud for the women that
do that, but it's way too frequent for men and women, especially with
cancer, for that to happen.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Glenda:
Now, your lawyers, your state bar association will have a
lawyers--attorney referral program, and they will know people by
specialties. What you're looking for is plaintiff's employment law. Can
I give them the name of--?
Jamie Reno:
Please. I was actually going to say, we can put these resources on the
CSN site--
Glenda:
Okay, well--
Jamie Reno:
--so people can find this info, but go ahead. Please.
Glenda:
I have the ironic and dubious distinction of having been the voice of one
of the earliest talking Barbie Dolls for Mattel.
Jamie Reno:
That is a very interesting distinction.
Glenda:
Yes. I'm the one that had the double mastectomy. The book is called
"Barbie Talks." Our website is www.talkingdollbook.com.
Jamie Reno:
Talking doll books? Okay.
Glenda:
I'm going to go ahead and put my profile up, probably tomorrow, on the
Cancer Survivors website, and my name is Glenda. I will look forward to
hearing the stories of other people who have had both good and bad
experiences as I begin to compile my next book, "Breast Works."
Jamie Reno:
Terrific.
Karen:
I have a question or a comment.
Jamie Reno:
Yes, please.
Karen:
Glenda, what if these people, such as myself, who don't have FMLA, because
in Minnesota FMLA doesn't become active until a year after employment?
Glenda:
One of the first things you're going to have to do is talk to your doctor.
If you're going to have a disability that's expected to last a year or
more, you need to start for SSI [Supplemental Security Income from Social
Security]. If there is no FMLA, one word of warning to everybody out
there is PLEASE always check the disability insurance option on your
benefits plan, and if you haven't done that in the past, the next time it
opens up, absolutely do that, or take out disability insurance. And
there's a trick to taking out disability insurance without spending a
fortune. You can take out a very short-term policy that only lasts 60
days and they're not too expensive. And you can take a policy that kicks
in after six months, provides you support for life and generous benefits,
and likewise, that's not terribly expensive, because the majority of
disability claims last 90 days or less. In fact, the vast majority only
last 30 days. So if you manipulate the coverage you can, and everybody
who's out there who can get disability insurance through their work needs
to do that.
Jamie Reno:
Mm-hmm.
Glenda:
Medical savings plans, there's a lot of stuff, but honest to God, if
you're in a state that does not have a state FMLA, and you may have one in
Minnesota, I don't know, you need to talk with your State Department of
Labor, because your State Department of Labor will have all kinds of
materials that explain to you how the laws in your particular state
work.
Karen:
Okay.
Jamie Reno:
But is it true that you need to pay your own premiums so the disability
income isn't taxable.
Glenda:
You got me. I don't do tax.
Jamie Reno:
Okay. I just--I had heard that. Someone had mentioned this on the site,
and I wanted to know if you knew about that.
Let's talk about what are reasonable job accommodations for folks who
are going through a cancer battle. Janet, it doesn't seem like that your
company went out of their way to accommodate you. Can you discuss, I
mean, did you discuss this with them?
Janet:
Yes, I did.
Jamie Reno:
And how did they react?
Janet:
I talked to the health service people, and they couldn't come up with
anything that they could work out in the actual building that I was
working in.
Jamie Reno:
Nothing, huh?
Janet:
And we were a large company, or I was working for a very large company so
you're kind of a number anyway. It's kind of like one little person in
the middle of how many thousand people.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Janet:
And so--
Glenda:
Where were they going to the bathroom?
Janet and Jamie Reno:
[laugh]
Janet:
Right there in the same building that they worked in, but they made me
walk--it was almost two and a half blocks up to the health service
department. I had to sign in, tell them I was coming up there to go to
the bathroom, went to the bathroom, had to sign out, had to go back down
and make my time up, so they were very unaccommodating towards my issue at
all. And I had people, before this happened, I had catheters that I had
to wash off, and the whole issue came up with was people wash their dishes
in the sinks in the bathroom where I worked. So they got mad because I
was washing a sterile catheter off in the bathroom so that I could go cath
[catheter] myself. They thought that that was just horrendous, and they
went to the boss and said, "She can't be doing that in the bathroom," but
they can be [laughing] washing their dishes in the bathroom.
Jamie Reno:
Janet, psychologically, emotionally, how do you deal, or how did you deal
with the frustrations of this kind of environment that really sees you as
damaged goods and really just wants you out of there?
Janet:
I was--at first I was kind of hostile almost.
Jamie Reno:
Yeah.
Janet:
And then I got to the point where I felt kind of beaten, you know? It was
just one of those deals where anything you do, you're still going to get
it, and the way that they would catch you was, well, count how many times
that they're going to go up there, or let's count how many of this or
that, so we can use that as evidence to get rid of them.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Janet:
You know, they were using my illness as ammunition against me, so--
Jamie Reno:
You know what I'm hearing? I'm hearing that all of you guys, and I felt
the same with my employers, I'm hearing an interesting combination of
really sincere workplace support among some supporters, some employers,
and some coworkers, and the opposite--people who just want you guys out of
there. You know, you're cancer now. You have cancer. You're damaged
goods.
Janet:
Right.
Jamie Reno:
It's an interesting combination, isn't it?
Janet:
Mm-hmm.
Glenda:
Yes. Very schizy!
Jamie Reno:
Yeah! It is. It's quite schizophrenic. You don't really know whether
you're wanted or not. Anyway, let's move on. I wanted to go back to
Glenda for a second on the job accommodations thing. Is it possible to
reconcile these differences between what you may think are reasonable
accommodations in where you work and what your boss thinks are
reasonable?
Glenda:
Well, the first thing you have to realize is that there is a procedure
involved.
Jamie Reno:
Mm-hmm.
Glenda:
And the very first thing you need to do is you need to contact the ADA
[Americans with Disabilities Act] coordinator in your workplace.
Jamie Reno:
What is [the] ADA coordinator?
Glenda:
The person who is in charge of receiving requests for reasonable
accommodations.
Jamie Reno:
Okay.
Glenda:
Most workplaces will have a special form that you need to fill out to make
such a request. Most ADA requests are really minimally expensive to put
in. In the case of my situation, my insurance company and my disability
carrier would both have been delighted to put a customized workstation in,
but the city, for reasons I never understood, wouldn't allow it.
Jamie Reno:
Really?
Glenda:
Yeah.
Jamie Reno:
Wow.
Glenda:
So, you want to do that. You want to remember when you're dealing with
ADA claims, that about a month and a half ago that the Supreme Court kind
of further gutted the ADA, and state workers are no longer able to file
federal claims under the ADA. Again, it's a paper trail issue. You want
to do it in the spirit of good will.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Glenda:
Document everything. Make timely applications. Make sure when your
doctor gives you a prescription that says you need to have a custom-fitted
chair or whatever, start out making three copies.
Jamie Reno:
Glenda, basically what you're saying is: folks, when you are diagnosed
with cancer, you need to think like a lawyer.
Glenda:
Yeah, you should probably have one. But you want to get--
Jamie Reno:
[laughs] But you also have to think like one yourself, too, don't you.
Glenda:
Yeah. Oh, you have to document everything.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Glenda:
You want to send--mail in your requests as they come along. Your doctor's
prescriptions, your doctor's letters. Keep copies of everything.
Jamie Reno:
With these kinds of claims, Glenda, is there a different approach if
you're dealing with a very small employer?
Glenda:
You still have to provide doctor's prescription and doctor's letters.
Jamie Reno:
It's the same deal then.
Glenda:
Right. And if you have a conversation, and people will sometimes give you
letters. If not, go and write up your recollections
contemporaneously.
Jamie Reno:
Mm-hmm.
Glenda:
If you have to do it in the bathroom.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Glenda:
You have to keep records and document. If you don't document everything--
and also you're looking at expenses all through this period of time in
terms of your taxes, your trips to and from, your transportation costs.
If you have disability coverage, your carrier will often pay all of the
costs of whatever accommodation you need.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Glenda:
Or they'll work with your employer to mitigate that.
Jamie Reno:
I'd like to remind everyone, Glenda, and all of you guys and all of you
listeners, that there will be a resources page along with the recording of
this show that you can listen to on the CSN website starting tomorrow.
So, if you've missed any portion of this, or if you want to hear it again,
it'll be up there. Back to the topic. Let me ask you, the government,
including Armed Forces, are under the same laws, is that correct? Are
they different?
Glenda:
Well, the Americans with Disabilities Act applies--I don't think it
applies to Indian tribes.
Jamie Reno:
Well, they have a sovereign--that is very different, obviously.
Glenda:
Oh, whenever you're looking at civil rights and labor statutes, you always
have to check who they apply to.
Jamie Reno:
And they're much harder to--for better or worse, they're much harder to
sue in court.
Glenda:
Let me just make a suggestion.
Jamie Reno:
Yeah.
Glenda:
Anybody that has these problems, for free you can go to findlaw.com [www.findlaw.com].
Jamie Reno:
Findlaw.com. Okay.
Glenda:
Right. And that will allow you, like for example, to bring up the
statutory language of the Americans with Disabilities Act. It's written in
English. It's not rocket science. You can read it. You should print it
out for yourself if this is one of the issues you're facing.
Jamie Reno:
Let me ask all of you folks, have your doctors been helpful in making a
case to your employer, or were they helpful in making a case that you
needed some form of accommodation on the job? Anybody can chime in here.
How has the support been from your oncologists, your doctors?
Glenda:
My doctor gets so annoyed because my supervisor kept mislaying or
otherwise kept claiming not to have gotten numerous letters and
prescriptions for special equipment and everything, and so my poor doctor
was at his wits' end about the third time that he had to sit down and
re-do this.
Jamie Reno:
Mark, how about you? What kind of support did you have from your doctor
regarding your job?
Mark:
My doctor was very supportive.
Health Insurance Issues
|
|
Jamie Reno:
That's good to hear. Let's talk about health insurance issues, which of
course every human being has to deal with, whether or not we're a cancer
survivor. Mark, back to you. When you were terminated, your insurance
reverted to COBRA, correct?
Mark:
Yes, it did.
Jamie Reno:
With a substantial increase in the premium, right?
Mark:
Right. I was paying, when I was still considered an employee, I was
paying like $157 a month. Now on my COBRA, for the family, coverage is
$991 a month.
Jamie Reno:
How much?
Mark:
$991.
Jamie Reno:
Wow! That's incredible!
Mark:
It is!
Jamie Reno:
How is that affecting your family? That's probably a stupid question.
Mark:
Things are really tight.
Jamie Reno:
Yeah.
Mark:
My wife is disabled and she is fighting for SSI. I'm getting disability
through Social Security for me and my son, so we're making our--we got our
noses above water, but that's about it. [laughs]
Jamie Reno:
Well, as a journalist, I'm rarely an advocate because I need to remain
objective, but how do we get laws passed? What's happening to Mark is
criminal, in my opinion. I mean, to go from 100 to 900 dollars, no fault
of his own. That can't be right.
Glenda:
There's an awful lot of stuff that has to be done in this area. Health
insurance and medical care insurance reform has been a hot topic
nationally for a long time.
Jamie Reno:
For a long time.
Glenda:
You need to write to your congress people, your representatives in the
House and the Senate. You need, also, to lobby your state legislature
because in Oregon, for example, we have the Oregon Health Plan, and we are
able to cover people who suddenly lose everything.
Jamie Reno:
I don't think that any good American, whichever side of the aisle you fall
on politically, would listen to Mark's story. Mark's a hard-working guy
and a good American, and I don't think anyone would think that he's asking
for too much. I mean, $900 a month is just--it's criminal! I mean,
there's got to be a better--
Glenda:
Well, his only option at this point is probably SSI.
Jamie Reno:
Is that right, Mark?
Mark:
Yes.
Jamie Reno:
Yeah.
Mark:
And I can't--you have to wait two years before you get Medicare. That's
another--
Jamie Reno:
Two years?
Mark:
--that's another thing I found out.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Mark:
As soon as I got SSDI [ Social Security Disability Insurance] I thought I
would get Medicare right away and worry about the health insurance.
Jamie Reno:
Janet, how about you? Have there been any problems with your insurance
coverage?
Janet:
They dropped mine in the middle of February.
Jamie Reno:
They dropped it?
Janet:
Yeah. They totally said, "See ya'." I had been working for--before I had
cancer, I had two jobs.
Jamie Reno:
Mm-hmm.
Janet:
As a single parent, you know, trying to make ends meet--
Jamie Reno:
Sure.
Janet:
--and blah, blah, blah. So I filled out disability forms weekly [laughs]
for them, and they allowed me to pick up insurance through them, and so
I'm covered slightly. They don't cover nearly as well as my other
insurance company did, but it's something at least, so--and it's
affordable.
Jamie Reno:
Karen, how about you. What's your situation with insurance?
Karen:
Well, as I stated before, I was only at my job for a month and a half.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Karen:
And my insurance had just become active.
Jamie Reno:
Just, like with what? You said seven or eight days?
Karen:
Eight days! [laughs] Right now, of course, we have the standard premiums
that get upped every year, like 12 to 15%, but I'm still hanging in, and
they've pretty much covered everything. My prosthesis is like the 80-20
plan. But all of my treatments, I just have a co-pay, and then the
insurance company hasn't rejected any.
The Things That Help Us Survive
|
|
Jamie Reno:
Let me ask all of you. Have you learned any tricks or any things that
have helped you deal with the diagnosis and treatment, that the
difficulties in the workplace? I know you're all dealing with it, so does
anybody have any good advice for folks out there listening? And anybody
can chime in here, please.
Mark:
This is Mark. My advice, or thing I learned, is don't be afraid to take
the help that people offer you. Be it fellow employees or your church, or
anything like that.
Karen:
This is Karen. I agree with that. A lot of people did offer to help me,
family, friends, coworkers, supervisors. I didn't take it, and I'm just
one of those bull-headed, strong-minded single parents. They offered to
take my child when I had treatment that day and I said "no." I thought I
could handle everything. I think my only advice would be, take what's
offered because, like in my situation, my son had to see me on the bad
days and the good days. Where I could have avoided that.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Karen:
And dinners made for me when I didn't have to get up and smell things that
I didn't want to smell--
Mark:
[laughs]
Karen:
--because of the chemotherapy.
Jamie Reno:
Right. Right.
Karen:
I could have had dinner made already. So, exactly as Mark said, take
whatever people can offer you.
Glenda:
It's certainly--this is Glenda. Cancer is certainly no time for false
pride. I couldn't agree more.
Jamie Reno:
Right. Right.
Glenda:
And the other piece that helped me a lot, because the combination,
frankly, of breast cancer and an automobile accident put me helplessly on
my back. Totally helpless for the first time in my life, and one of the
things I learned coming out of it was that events come into your life with
whatever amount of energy they possess. And in this particular event, it
was vast amounts of energy. The direction that energy takes is what you
give it. That was the piece I had to learn was how to take that
tremendous physical and mental--I lost all my friends. I lost, you know,
it was devastating. And try to turn and make that be a force for
good.
Jamie Reno:
A lot of us, I think most adults, actually define, to some degree, we
define ourselves by our work, so when these things happen, you have to
really, you have to really redefine yourself, don't you? It's a complete
process that you have to go through.
Glenda:
Cancer is a real truth-getter.
Jamie Reno:
Yeah. That's for sure. It also separates the real friends from the
not-so-real friends, doesn't it?
Mark:
That's true.
Karen:
This is Karen. I lost two high-school friends. I was friends with them
for 15 years. They came to the hospital, brought me beautiful bouquets of
flowers, then decided not to call any more, because I was such a strong
person and I was doing so well that they felt they didn't need to call and
check on me.
Jamie Reno:
You know, Karen, when I was first was diagnosed, I definitely put the
people--I've sort of stopped seeing the folks who didn't see me during my
chemo, and sort of decided that life's too short to spend it with folks
who can't be there for you. But I've also sort of come to a realization,
though, that--and this is related to our issue of cancer in the workplace,
because it happens to coworkers. I mean, it happens to us. You know,
some coworkers just don't know how to deal with you, but I've come to the
conclusion that a lot of it has to do with simply how people are raised.
Some people just don't know how to deal with someone who is sick. I've
learned to sort of accept that and to forgive them because even
coworkers--and I'm not talking about the legal issues, I'm talking about
the personal and moral issues, some folks don't have the maturity or the
wherewithal or the whatever to deal with folks who have the C-word. I
mean, some people are just so afraid of it.
Mark:
I think there's a lot of people out there who still think they can catch
it from you.
Jamie Reno:
That's another thing. There are so many misconceptions that in the
workplace and beyond, that [laughs] it's contagious. There's also a bit
of a stigma attached to cancer. You know, I've had it for five years and
I'm still kicking. I've written three cover stories for Newsweek in the
last two months. I've been covering the war. I've been covering the
Enron. I wrote the cover story on Enron, and I've been covering this
horrible story of this missing little girl--
Glenda:
Yeah.
Jamie Reno:
--the last couple of weeks. I'm sure you're all familiar with that one in
San Diego. It's a terrible story for me, because I have a 2-year-old
daughter and--but I've been doing my thing, and I've been into moving on
with my life as best I can. I have days where I don't feel well, like we
all do, but you really just have to move on, and you have to decide who's
going to be there for you, who isn't, and the people who aren't--I'm
sorry, but you pretty much have to take them off your list.
Janet:
Exactly.
Mark:
You do.
Jamie Reno:
But on the other hand, when it comes to the workplace, there are legal
remedies, and Glenda, I'm very glad you're with us today, because it's
very important to know that we do have rights as workers.
Glenda:
There's one thing that I wanted to add just in closing, if I may? Most
people, when they have those kinds of problems --they're looking at Civil
Rights and remedies. They're looking at the Americans with--
Jamie Reno:
Disabilities Act?
Glenda:
Yeah, and they're looking at Title 7 of the Civil Rights [Act], but one of
the things you want to always keep in mind is that the common law is alive
and well.
Jamie Reno:
Explain what that means, Glenda.
Glenda:
Well, the common law is what we got from merry old England, and there are
remedies that sometimes are still alive outside of statutes. And these
would be things like outrageous conduct.
Jamie Reno:
Minus the redcoats and the powdered wigs, right?
Glenda:
Right. Outrageous conduct. Wrongful termination. There are a lot of
different kinds of remedies, and you should not ever go back to your
workplace without having done a good job of documenting and knowing your
rights, even if it's going to be heaven on earth, and I hope it is, but
document everything.
Jamie Reno:
Yeah.
Glenda:
Do not pretend for a moment that the things that bother you just a tiny
bit aren't going to become important. You've got to do it, and you've got
to do it all the time.
Jamie Reno:
Let's talk for a minute--I'd like to end this on
a positive note. I appreciate all of you very much for participating.
Let's talk a little bit about the positives. We talked a bit about the
support you've had from coworkers. Let's talk about that a little bit
more. Whoever wants to chime in with maybe with an example of a coworker
who was supportive and made it easier, not harder for you to go into your
work. Does anybody have an example?
Janet:
This is Janet, and I had a friend that she had breast cancer and so she
knew what I had gone through, and so the day I came back to work she kept
asking, "When's she coming back?" She came over immediately and gave me a
hug, and told me everything would be okay and, that if I needed anything,
needed to talk to her, that she was there to listen. That meant so much
to me, you know?
Jamie Reno:
Mark, how about you? You mentioned that really a lot of the people that
you worked with were very supportive.
Mark:
Right.
Jamie Reno:
Are they still--even though you've lost your job--are they still in touch
with you, some of them, or--?
Mark:
It's sort of dwindling down more.
Jamie Reno:
Yeah, well, that will happen.
Mark:
A lot of people are--I know who my friends are. They stop in like every
two, three weeks. I understand they have their own lives.
Jamie Reno:
Sure.
Mark:
And they're busy at work, but it sure is nice to see them.
Jamie Reno:
Yeah.
Mark:
It really takes my spirits up when somebody stops in. Even if it's for
five, ten minutes.
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Mark:
A lot of people stop like on their lunch break or something. Just pop in
and say, "Hey, how you doing?" And they can tell it cheers me up.
Jamie Reno:
What about humor, guys?
Glenda:
[laughs]
Jamie Reno:
I think if anything, I've learned a lot, as we all have I'm sure, being
diagnosed with cancer. None of us probably will ever understand
completely why this happened to us, but I think humor has become a very
important part of coping with, you know, laughing. Trying to laugh at all
of this.
Karen:
I agree.
Mark:
I agree. That's why I tell people I'm just another sexy bald guy.
[laughter]
Jamie Reno:
Well, bald is in anyway now, you know?
Mark:
Yeah, I noticed that!
Jamie Reno:
When I went through chemo, I told everybody I played in the NBA.
[laughter]
Karen:
When I was going through chemo, and I thought I looked better bald than
having a bad hair day.
[laughter]
Jamie Reno:
Or having a bad scalp day.
Karen:
Yeah.
Janet:
You know what's a good book, too? This is Janet, is that "Chicken Soup
for the Surviving Souls." It has some excellent cancer survivor stories,
and they're humorous, too, some of them. I just sat there and laughed at
them, and thought this is the best thing for me, you know, is to be able
to feel like I'm not alone in my life with cancer. I can kind of see
where they came from--
Jamie Reno:
Right.
Janet:
--and kind of put a new perspective on.
Jamie Reno:
I think it's also helpful, not only to talk to coworkers and try to
maintain a normalcy in your life, but also to do what we're doing today,
which is to talk to fellow cancer survivors, because there's so many of us
out there, and we're all dealing with the same issues. You know, we're
all Americans, whether we're white or black or brown or Republican or
Democrat, we're all in the same boat here. And I think it helps all of us
to talk about it with each other. That's how I feel.
Mark:
I feel the same way.
Glenda:
It's good to talk, and it's good to be able to laugh together!
Jamie Reno:
Absolutely!
Janet:
I'm on several chats at night with breast cancer survivors, and we just
have a ball!
Jamie Reno:
Yeah, yeah! It's well--and that's the thing, I mean this happens and the
thing is, everybody has been touched by cancer in and out of the
workplace. Everybody has either a friend or family member who has had
cancer.
Glenda:
Yes.
Jamie Reno:
So, it's remarkable that there are still stigmas, because it touches
everyone. You would think by now people would understand this is an equal
opportunity disease, that is everyone can get.
Karen:
It definitely does not discriminate.
Jamie Reno:
It doesn't, the wealthiest to the poorest to the most important
to--everybody is the same. So, anyway, I want to thank all of you very
much. This brings our Carecast to a close. I want to remind you that the
recorded audio portion of this broadcast will be available tomorrow on the
Cancer Survivors Network, along with a link to a list of resources that
may help you with your workplace issues. Glenda, I hope you know that
we're going to make up this stuff so people can learn more about all the
legal issues here.
Glenda:
Well, I'm going to be real interested to get time to work on that book,
because I think it's the next important thing I have to do.
Jamie Reno:
Right. Also I want to thank all of you. I want to remind everybody that
everybody who has done this talk is a member of the Cancer Survivors
Network, and our screen names will be posted with a transcript of the
broadcast, and by clicking on those screen names you can send our personal
Web pages and send us a message. Please, everybody check out the CSN
website, and I want to thank all of you again. There are many active
discussion boards at the site. We invite you to continue this discussion
and connect with each other because that's what this is all about.
That's what CSN is all about. Again, those without computers must know
that they can listen to the entire show library by calling toll-free
1-877-333-HOPE. Write it down. It's 1-877-333-4673. Finally, I hope that
this discussion has helped you guys listening out there because we all
deal with these things. We're all dealing with workplace issues. I want
to thank here again, very much, Glenda, Mark, Karen and Janet, for your
willingness to share your thoughts, feelings and a part of your lives with
us today, and I hope these experiences will help you think about and talk
about your own concerns out there. For the American Cancer Society's
Cancer Survivors Network, this is Jamie Reno with Newsweek, wishing each
of you a very, very great day.
Glenda:
Thanks.
Karen:
Thank you, Jamie.
Jamie Reno:
Thanks.
Mark and Janet:
Thank you.
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