NEAL:
Hello, and welcome to the American Cancer Society's Cancer Survivors Network, a service created by and for cancer survivors. I'm your co-host, Neal Sofian. Today we'll be joined by two special guests. But before we introduce them, let me introduce today's special guest host and discussion leader, Bill Schroeder. Bill comes to us from Toledo, Ohio, where he is the communications director for the American Cancer Society's office there. After a successful 27-year career in radio broadcasting, Bill made a job change after personally surviving prostate cancer, which was diagnosed in 1997. He's now an outspoken advocate, communicator, and organizer for early cancer screening and detection. Hi, Bill. We're really glad to have you here as our guest host this morning.

BILL:
Hi, there, Neal, I'm glad to join you as well. On the phone with us today are two men who are both very successful and very passionate in their respective fields, and they are here to share their thoughts about surviving cancer. Joining us from Rancho Santa Fe, California, is Dr. Denis Waitley. Denis is one of the most sought-after keynote speakers in the nation, delivering his provocative insights from the boardrooms of corporate America to the control rooms of NASA, from the locker rooms of world-class athletes to the meeting rooms of thousands of conventioneers across the world. He is the author of twelve nonfiction books, including some national best sellers, and his audio program, "The Psychology of Winning," is the all-time best-selling program on self-mastery. In 1994, Denis was diagnosed with prostate cancer, and we're very glad you're here to contribute to the Cancer Survivors Network. Welcome, Denis.

DENIS:
Thanks, Bill. It's really great to be with you.

BILL:
Thank you for taking the time to join us. Starting out, when you were first diagnosed, Denis, you went to leading institutions and received, I understand, different advice.

DENIS:
No question about it. I had had the usual yearly prostate screening, you know, which they do digitally. Then when I had my blood test and it was a little higher, I went to the Mayo Clinic and went ahead and had them take a biopsy there. Then when they discovered a small patch of prostate cancer, I began to roll up my sleeves and really go at it, so I went to Stanford. I went to Johns Hopkins, Mayo, Scripps, and pretty much really got into it so that I could understand what I was up against.

BILL:
I understand you spent a year researching alternatives?

DENIS:
I did, indeed. And I got a number of opinions on what I should do, you know, whether I should watch and wait...that was based on the fact that I was very much interested in the Gleason Number. You know, the Gleason Number in the biopsy tells us, perhaps, how fast the little tumors are replicating and it gives us an idea, if the Gleason Score is very low, that it might not be replicating too fast. If it's a very small tumor that has been isolated, you might want to watch and wait or consider a number of other possible treatments for it. So I was very much interested in really researching, because the doctors, each one of them, said that they could not advise me what to do. They would give me the suggested or recommended treatments, but they always put the decision back firmly on me. Which I understood, but I also was a little uncomfortable. Here was the professional that I was banking on to tell me what to do, and what they would always say is, "But it's your call." And then I asked them a very penetrating question. I said, "If I were your son or if this was you, what would you do?" And they wouldn't answer that question.

BILL:
And then you found out about a new procedure from a survivor that you knew.

DENIS:
That's right. It just so happened the cover of Fortune magazine had Andrew Grove, the founder of Intel, and told his story. Interestingly enough, he had gone through the same exact research procedure and had talked to the same high-level prostate experts as I had, and they had all recommended one procedure, which was obviously a radical prostatectomy. Which is the normal approach, especially coming from surgeons. You know, and I'm not saying that that's not the best course of action, because you remember when Norman Schwartzkopf got prostate cancer, he's one of those guys that, like in the Gulf War, he said, "Cut the doggone thing out." You know, do it today! He likes to take immediate action. So each person reacts differently. But I felt that Andrew Grove was a scientist and a very practical man, very much deep into research, and I took what he had gone through and what he said to me as being very relevant, because we seemed to have a similar diagnosis with a similar Gleason number. So I perked up when I saw that there might be an alternate to the radical prostatectomy.

BILL:
And how old were you, Denis, when you were diagnosed?

DENIS:
Let's see, I was 62 years old.

BILL:
And you had a high dose of radiation, I understand.

DENIS:
I did the computer-guided high-dose iridium, the same thing that Grove did, so what we did we did quickly. We did an MRI, we found out where the little tumor was located, we put little hollow straws surrounding the prostate gland, and they went ahead and inserted high-dose iridium ribbons temporarily. They gave it a real high dose for a couple of seconds on two different days, and then I was released and we followed that up with 30 days of external beam radiation and I was on my way.

BILL:
And how was that, how was the external beam radiation?

DENIS:
Well, for most people they said you got dog-tired afterward and that, you know, I would probably experience some fatigue, but I didn't. I just went ahead and did it in the morning and was ready to go, and did it for 30 straight days. We did it around December so it was down time for me and my career, so I didn't miss a single speaking engagement or anything in business, and just was on my way.

BILL:
And I understand you went on to a 186-city tour.

DENIS:
I went on a 186-city tour with Tom Peters and Steven Covey and we spoke in a different city every day. And I was concerned about some of the side effects, you know, that there might be a little incontinence or some other things, but I was prepared. The way I was prepared is that if I felt that I was on the stage and felt that I needed an urgent message, I would have somebody in the back of the room say, "Denis, you have an important call that you need to take." Would you please give them a five-minute break. And then they showed me that I could run for the Men's Room if that were necessary, but it wasn't. So it worked out very well for me, and I've been tracking it mostly about every three months. I get my PSA taken, and I've gone into obviously a new diet regimen, which should have been important in the first place.

BILL:
I was just going to ask you, how is your PSA today?

DENIS:
My PSA is close to zero. It's reading about 0.1, which is pretty good after nearly five years. But, you know, in this situation I think it's something where they only have an 8- or 10-year history; they don't have as much information as they do with the surgical procedure, so in this particular high-dose iridium therapy, which is different than the seed implant, they only have 8 to 10 years of research, so it's something that I may have to keep tracking for the rest of my life, but it's a very small price to pay for feeling that I've got a handle on this.

BILL:
Terrific. And you've got a great philosophy you'd like to share with our audience, I hear.

DENIS:
Well, my philosophy is, "As long as I'm alive, if I can see, if I can hear, if I can touch, I want to live as long as I can, love as much as I can, and watch my great-grandchildren graduate from high school." In order to do that, I'd be 93, and my mother is 90, and she just got a ticket for speeding.

BILL:
Uh-oh. Grandma's still behind the wheel, huh? Well, you also stated it's not what happens, but how you deal with it. Can you touch on that for a second?

DENIS:
That's right. Life is what you make it. It's not so much what happens to you, it's how you take it. I think a person's response to whatever comes along, the way they deal with what happens to them, the way they respond effectively rather than reacting overemotionally is the key. Because things happen through our lives, because life is a process, not a status. And so I've always felt that the way that you are proactive about your life and then the way you deal with what happens to you is much more important than being lucky. I've always felt that luck is laboring under correct knowledge. That if you get the knowledge, you're a lot luckier than if you don't have the knowledge. Especially in the case of cancer, with knowledge, early screening, preventive methods, dieting, and really knowing what it is you're dealing with makes you a lot more confident in the way you're dealing with it.

BILL:
Wonderful advice. Denis Waitley, thank you very much. We'll be getting back with you in just a couple of minutes, but we want to welcome our next guest, a Missouri native spending most of his career at the University of Missouri in Columbia. His name is Coach Norm Stewart. Norm recently retired from a long and very successful career, first as a two-sport athlete, then as a college basketball coach, spending thirty-two years as the head basketball coach of the University of Missouri Tigers, and known as the seventh-winningest college basketball coach in NCAA history. In 1989, he collapsed on a plane en route to a game and was soon thereafter diagnosed with colon cancer. He beat cancer and went on to 10 more years of coaching, including being named National College Basketball Coach of the Year in 1994. He also served as the national chairman for Coaches vs. Cancer, a national pledge drive program which we will cover, and it raises money for the American Cancer Society in the fight against cancer. Starting with one school, his old alma mater, Norm saw this program grow to its present participation of over 500 men's and women's college basketball coaches. Hello, Norm, it's good to have you with us.

NORM:
Hi, Bill. How are you this morning?

BILL:
I understand you're down where it's nice and warm and sunny.

NORM:
Well, we're fortunate to have a daughter that lives in Los Angeles, and then we have a home in Palm Springs so we can spend a little time together here in this area.

BILL:
Wonderful! Great way to spend the winter. In getting right to the subject, did you have any symptoms prior to you collapsing on the airplane, Norm?

NORM:
No, I really didn't, and I was very fortunate that I did collapse. I had bleeding ulcers, and that's what caused the collapse. My hemoglobin was about seven or eight, and they thought at first that I had passed out. That maybe I had had some heart trouble. So we made an emergency landing and the people at Hillcrest Hospital in Oklahoma City were absolutely wonderful. We found out it was not my heart, and so I waited a day or two and then flew back to Columbia, Missouri, and was diagnosed there that I did have colon cancer.

BILL:
At the time on the plane, tell us briefly what was going on in your mind.

NORM:
Well, the first thing that happened, I thought it was the same thing. I just became very dizzy and passed out, and I had players on the team that were on the plane with me. That's the way we traveled at that time with the U. of Missouri. A lot of teams traveled that way, and my concern was that young people didn't exactly want to go through the process at close quarters of watching somebody maybe have a heart attack and might expire right in front of them, and so that was my first concern. Then I began to think, well something is happening other than my heart, in all probability, but I really couldn't figure it out. So I did pass out, and then when they made the emergency landing, I was taken by ambulance to the hospital. They told me during that ride, "We don't think it's anything with your heart. We'll find out what it is and you should rest easy." So they put me at ease immediately.

BILL:
Great. And how old were you when you were diagnosed, Norm?

NORM:
Well, that was in 1989. I'm 65 today and so that would have been 11 years...I was 54 years old.

BILL:
54. And did you have surgery?

NORM:
I did have surgery. It was done in Columbia, Missouri. And if you think back, of all the progress that has been made with all the wonderful volunteers and people that we have and all the organizations that work so hard, that at that particular time, there were many questions that we answer today that we didn't know the answer to then. My diagnosis was that I had colon cancer, and it was not entrapped. That meant that when they take an exam, they do 16 lymph nodes, and they found that one out of the 16 had escaped or gone to the outside. So under those circumstances, the doctors that I was working with told me that if they were the patient, they would do an experimental chemotherapy, and it was the use of a vitamin with an old and still-used form of chemo. I did that and I did it for six months.

BILL:
What side effects did you have, Coach? Any?

NORM:
Well, I was very fortunate. I did not react. I don't think I've told other patients now, but I was very fortunate. I didn't think the chemotherapy was that strong, but I did have a loss of hair, it weakened me. I lost a lot of weight, but that was due to complications in surgery that had nothing to do with the surgery or with the cancer. But I lost 30-some pounds during that time, and so I became weak and obviously, then, the chemo didn't help that procedure. But the one thing in listening to Denis, and we can talk about this later...I did the things that I wanted to do for myself, and like him, I think that people should read. They can help not only with the cure, they can help with everything that goes into that cure if they know themselves a little bit better and then know what they are dealing with, and put those two things together. I did exactly what I wanted to do during that six-month period of time. I have a wonderful family, they were very supportive, they allowed me to do all of those things, and in six months then I was back, and I was ready to go back to the floor and coach again.

BILL:
Great. Very positive attitude. And you concentrated on healing yourself.

NORM:
Well, yes. And Joe Hall, who is a famous basketball coach at Kentucky University, had the same diagnosis, six months prior to mine, and he called me. It was a wonderful phone call, and he said, "Norm, here is my diagnosis. If there's anything I can do for you...," and he gave me a great piece of advice. He said, "From now on, don't answer this phone unless you want to," and he said, "in fact, when you want to talk on the phone, you make the phone call." And I followed that advice and it really worked great for me. And I think that works well for people who are visible, who are on the phone a lot and who are in communication a lot with a lot of other people. But that way it didn't tie me up, I didn't feel obligated. So if I wanted to talk to somebody, I called that person, and that was a great help for me.

BILL:
I'm sure a lot of your team members were clamoring to stop up into the hospital room to see you, but as I understand, you kept it to immediate family until you personally felt up to receiving guests, once you were home.

NORM:
That's correct. And I think that's important. And I've always felt this not only about cancer patients, but all patients, that when you're in the hospital, you know, you're usually sick, and your main thing then is to get well. And sometimes the best way to get well is not to have a group of people around you, though well-meaning people. And that was my situation, because we have so many friends after living in a relatively small town for 32 years and, at that time, 21 years, who really meant well. But at that time, it really wasn't the solution for me getting better.

BILL:
Exactly. My younger brother, who is 52, was diagnosed with prostate cancer in December, and had a radical prostatectomy, and he's one of the deputy police chiefs here in Toledo. So he had a lot of his men and ladies in blue that I'm sure wanted to come up and see him in the hospital as well, and I encouraged him, being a prostate cancer survivor myself, to discourage that. Just his wife and the children come up to see him, but wait until you're feeling better before you have the guys and girls in blue stop by the house.

NORM:
Yeah, I think it just puts another burden on you, and you want to wait until you have the strength. Because something like that can knock you down a little bit, not only physically, but emotionally. Because you see people that you have strong feelings about, and they have strong feelings about you also, so it can be an emotional swing that really isn't needed at that time.

BILL:
Right. People will understand, too. Our audience that is listening, keep that in mind. You know, don't encourage. In fact, just come out and tell people, "Listen, once I get home recouping and I get my strength back, I'd love to see you. But while I'm in the hospital recuperating, that's what I'm doing and I can do it a heck of a lot faster if I'm resting." So I think that's great advice. But I have to ask you this question, Coach. Did your team win the game?

NORM:
You know what, I think it's very interesting. I've always been able to see a little humor in everything, but a lot of people said that the reason I got sick on the plane was that they didn't think we could win the game. But it was a great game, we were rated in the top two or three in the country and so was Oklahoma. Billy Tubbs, who now coaches Texas Christian, was coaching a great Oklahoma team, and our team responded with emotional play at the beginning of the game and we were ahead some ridiculous score. But they came back and Billy Tubbs got on the microphone and made a comment about the officiating, that people were booing the officials and throwing stuff on the floor, and he made an announcement. He said, "We don't want you to act that way regardless of how bad the officiating is." And of course their players responded to that. It was humorous and, you know, it really made the point. Oklahoma did come back and did win the ball game.

BILL:
Terrific. Good. Listen, let's have you put your past National Chairman of Coaches vs. Cancer program hat on for just a couple of minutes here, and then we'll have Neal and Denis join us. Tell the audience how they can get involved with Coaches vs. Cancer.

NORM:
Well, let me say this. First of all, that's one of those things that's like coaching: you get a lot of credit when it should go to a lot of other team people. But we were the people who were picked to do a pilot program at the University of Missouri, and it started out, and we still have this three-point program. And individuals, small businesses, corporate members, can give money for every three-point shot that the U of Missouri made, and I took that program to the National Association of Basketball Coaches. It was adopted for all coaches and as we began this program, it grew and grew until now we have over 500 coaches, and it's called Coaches vs. Cancer. We have raised a little over 10 million dollars, and it has been due to the work of all the volunteers in the American Cancer Society and all the wonderful coaches, men and women, across the United States, and it is getting bigger all the time. This year, we hope, I hope, that we go over the five million mark for the year, and I think we will.

BILL:
Well, that is absolutely incredible. That is great, Norm. I know that you've been to the University of Toledo in Toledo, Ohio. Coach Stan Joplin and the American Cancer Society have talked about getting involved with Coaches vs. Cancer, and I can probably tell you we are going to be involved in it next season.

NORM:
Well, good. Let me tell you, if somebody wants to get involved, all they have to do is either call their school or call 1-800-345-TEAM, and people at the American Cancer Society will give them the information that they will need to get involved.

BILL:
Terrific. 1-800-345-TEAM.

NEAL:
And so everyone will know, we'll be sure to get that up on the website here as these shows are deployed out. Everyone will be able to find that and we'll be able to create a link, either for the phone number or the website, if they have one.

BILL:
I have just one more question, Norm, before we have the other gentleman join us. As you know, colon cancer is called the silent killer because often there are no symptoms until it is advanced. What would be your message to our audience.

NORM:
Well, there are some very simple things to do. Obviously, early detection is only going to take place if you have examinations. Many people then will say, oh my word, you know, that's awful, but it really is not. Today, the test is improved. It's not something you want to do every day, but it's not something that you do do every day. It is a test that will let you know immediately, and that would be one of the first things in regard to colon cancer.

BILL:
I guess we should encourage the gentlemen listening today to talk about it in your family. I know I have three brothers, four boys in my family. I was the first one who was diagnosed with prostate cancer, then my 48-year-old brother two weeks after me, and then just this past December, my 51-year-old brother as well. Honestly, we never talked about it. We're very close, but as guys sitting around did not talk about the possibility, whether it be colon cancer or prostate cancer. So I think everyone would agree that it's very smart, wise, and you're doing your family a service by talking about it openly, about the possibilities, and about your family history of any form of cancer, of course.

NORM:
That's correct. If you're asking me, the one thing, other than raising money, that we've been able to do because of our association with young people, is to make young people aware of cancer. So that I think that new generations will come on and they won't have the fear that our generation and the generation before me had when cancer was mentioned, or someone was told they had cancer. We're working with young people and they are hearing about cancer, and so they are starting to do tests and becoming aware of it. I hope, and I see some of this, that the young people becoming aware will educate themselves. That's what Denis was mentioning a while ago, and that is a huge part of the process.

BILL:
Great. And Norm, speaking of Denis and Neal, let's invite those two gentlemen back into the conversation. And Denis, we'll start with you. What helped you the most during your cancer experience?

DENIS:
Well, I think networking with people like Andrew Grove, who've been through it before, and meeting other people. And then really getting into the science of what causes degenerative diseases. You know, I think I found that in addition to some genetic predisposition that can occur in a family, there's also this very important new information about the nutritional factor and the fact that many of these things we are facing today are caused by diet, and some of the oxidative stress that takes place. There are a lot of pollutants out there and it's very important to take a real close look at the way you nourish your body, the things that you eat, the way you supplement your diet with things that have been shown to help. So I really got an education on my diet, and I've changed the way I eat completely. I've changed a lot of our diet in our family...the fact that we were heavy meat eaters, that we ate a lot of processed and cooked food. If I look back on it I'd say that we were ideal candidates because we were eating things that you'd begin to see this kind of problem. So that's one thing.

The other thing, which is really like when Coach was talking about networking with coaches...I've taken all my classmates from Annapolis, and we have our own website, and I've been able to get to everybody that graduates from the Naval Academy who's on a website to share information and download papers. So, in your own sphere of influence, just like a coach, there are so many people with similar interests who might be on the web with you that you can really get a good e-mail chat room going on prevention and education for things like cancer. So that's what I have done, I've just taken my own peer group and my own University graduates and shared any information with them as well.

BILL:
So Denis, when you first were diagnosed, and even now, you've obviously done a lot of studying, you've really kept up with the information. There are people out there who are not educated in terms of their own cancer. How did you go about actually doing the search? Where did you go, what were the steps you took so that somebody else could go through that same step? Where would they start?

DENIS:
You always start with the American Cancer Society, because you know right away that they're going to be ahead of the game on everyone. You know, the National Institutes of Health, American Cancer Society, New England Journal of Medicine. I used a search engine. I go to Yahoo and the other search engines and stick in cancer and stick in prostate cancer, and bang! Away I go. I mean, I get so many hits, that I had my office staff download all of the papers on prostate cancer. And then obviously the other thing I did was to make sure that people who were successful in overcoming, and had a history of maybe ten years cancer-free or ten years having beat it, I make sure that whatever information they had, I had them e-mail it and fax it to me as well. So I developed my own library from the American Cancer Society, New England Journal of Medicine, and did my own search. Which I do today. Whenever I want something, I go to the web, and if you don't know how to search the web, there are actually classes at universities and extensions of universities that show you how to conduct a search without just getting lost on the Internet. That's why it's so important to specifically put in as I did, "prostate cancer," which is what I was interested in and then that gave me more specific information.

BILL:
And then how did you sort out the good information from the bad?

DENIS:
I made sure of the information that I believe in. I always tell this to my seminar participants, "Always check the source," when it's secondhand information. Make sure that the person that you're believing in isn't just anecdotal, which means isn't just somebody who believes in a miracle cure here or there, but that the person has a proven track record of success and comes from a legitimate source. So, initially, because there was so much, I went along with the American Cancer Society and the New England Journal of Medicine and Stanford and Johns Hopkins. I wanted to make sure that I had people with licenses, who were licensed practitioners, and experts in their fields, who had actually graduated from the schools that they said they did. That's important to me. If I'm going to take advice from somebody, I want to make sure that that person is qualified to give me that advice. And then, on top of that, I'll listen to people who've overcome in their own case. But you know, people get so excited and they think something has cured them. I'd give a caution to people out there. Don't go to the alternative last resort first. Go through all the traditional licensed methods first, and then if you want to experiment on top of that, just make sure your physician is involved and you're not doing something that will actually harm you or work at odds with the treatment that's been recommended.

BILL:
How about a strong spiritual and mental attitude? How does that come into play?

NORM:
I think that you really hit on something when you talk about mental and spiritual. And obviously all of us have our own beliefs and so I would encourage anybody that has their belief to rely upon that strongly. The mental aspect of it, which is tied in then of course with the spiritual part of it... But the mental aspect of finding humor has always been a strength for me, and, I think, if you can have a strong mental outlook. Denis, of course, does a wonderful job in this and saying to people to be proactive. To go out and do the things on a positive basis. Mentally, I think that is part of the cure and I don't know if we ever have any reliable tests to show how big the mental part of it is, but it certainly seems to me that it is something. And you get that from your family, you get it from the people who surround you. I tell all the people who call me, you have a great number of people who love you, and will give you time, money, or whatever you need, and don't be afraid to call on them.

DENIS:
Right. The support of family is very, very important. Dad or Grandpa is sick. Advise the family to open up to the other family members and discuss this openly. I do this, obviously I do. I think full disclosure about what's going on...that we have a challenge, and we have something we're fighting and we're working on, and we really appreciate their prayers, we appreciate their support. And also, as Norm says, I believe in sharing information but I don't believe in making so much of it that people worry more than they should. Because if you're going to maintain a positive mental attitude, then you don't want family members worrying or exaggerating. They might not have as good an attitude as Coach and I do. You know, we're used to coaching, and helping, and being the strong people, and what we don't need is people around us who are wringing their hands and worrying and telling other people via the grapevine.

I had people call me and say, "We understand you're terminally ill." Yeah, and "Can we have your speaking engagements?" And I said, "I'm not quite ready to go yet." And, as Norm says about humor, I'll tell you, in addition to my deep spiritual and mental beliefs, there's nothing better than humor. People would say, "How are you doing?" And I'd say "Well, it all depends. Other than wearing diapers and talking in a soprano voice, I'm doing just fine." And they'd say, "You've got to be kidding! You look just normal." I say, "Well, it's because I am." I like to make light of things so they know that however it is with you, you're able to cope with it, and you're taking it as something that happens in life, and you're taking it in stride. And I think that's one of the main things that you can do. Take it in stride, laugh at yourself a little bit, keep it a little on the light side. Norman Cousins, as we remember, wrote about overcoming a debilitating disease by watching humorous movies. We know a Herbert Benson of Harvard, if you really want to know how the mind-body effect works... Herbert Benson, a psychiatrist from Harvard University, has proven that when you impose a strong spiritual and mental attitude on top of the finest medical care, you've got yourself a full system working for you. It's a full-court press working for you all the time.

BILL:
On a personal note, I think the hardest part for me, and Denis, you touched on this, was me worrying about my family worrying about me. I had a very, very positive attitude. But in a way, convincing my family that I was fine, you know, I've accepted this, and I have a positive attitude, and everything's going to be fine, was the roughest part. Because they would say, "Are you sure you're okay?" And I'm sure you guys went through the same.

I think this is very important, too. Let's get on this subject for just a second: people meeting the public, and you're both very much in the public eye... Would you agree that it's important for the general public to meet and to see survivors? To see that there is life after cancer and life goes on?

DENIS:
I know Norm probably has a comment about that because he'd be right out there traveling with the team and gets immediate attention, so I'd be interested to see what he felt when people would approach him or when he would get questions from the media.

NORM:
Well, the first thing I think that happens in this is that there are a number of people, probably a small number, but there are a number of people who think maybe they don't want to be around someone who's had cancer. That it might be catching, you know. They don't want to be in the proximity. So it's good, I think, for someone to step up, and it takes a personality. Some people do not want to admit to having a disease or some sort of a problem. With me, it seemed a natural thing, particularly when I was approached to help with a program. My mother had died of cancer just a few years before and so it was a no-brainer, really, for me to say, "I'll do what I can do." And I'll step up and say, "Yes, I've had cancer, here's what's happened to me, here's maybe some of the things that I can suggest for you. But the main thing is to see your doctor, help with the American Cancer Society, and let's get rid of this."

NEAL:
If I can ask both of you a quick question. You both obviously not only have survived cancer but have gone on. Norm, in your case, you didn't become Coach of the Year until after cancer. You maybe became a better coach. I watched a lot of your career, having been a student at MU myself. And what is it that has changed? How has cancer changed your lives, both on a practical day-to-day level, and also in terms of how you deal with getting through the day and your life?

NORM:
Well, the first thing that happened... I want to go back. I had wonderful teachers. I've been in the education business all of my life, but I had wonderful teachers myself. So I didn't change that much, but I began to accentuate some of the things just a little more. And the other thing that became very apparent to me was that it was still important because it was what I was doing. It's my profession and I wanted our players to be able to do their best. But I must be honest with you, I was much more relaxed, because I felt fortunate that I had another opportunity to do something that I might not really have had an opportunity to even witness. And so I think from that standpoint, I really did change. A lot of the officials and one of the newspaper people said I didn't really change that much, but I think I really did, inside. And I think now that I've retired from coaching, I think that most of them will admit to that.

DENIS:
For my own part, my changes were dramatic, in that I figure I was supposed to be on American Airlines Flight 191, the DC-10 in Chicago O'Hare in 1979, 21 years ago. I was 5 seconds from getting on that plane that killed everyone aboard. And I figured that that was something. God gave me another chance. A five-second difference in boarding a plane. But I think, in this case, having gone through something where I was so deeply involved over a period of time has made me appreciate everything that I do, everything about life, everything I eat, everywhere I go. I figure that I'm in tune with my body. I listen to it a lot more when it speaks to me. And of course your body only speaks to you when it isn't feeling good. And so we tend to take for granted how we feel, and that's why it's so important to have physical checkups and to go the extra mile in prevention. Your body won't talk to you until some of these things are advanced. So I'm very much aware of looking after dental work and looking after things I might have just taken for granted before. And the other thing is that when I wake up in the morning, I say, "Safe again. Let's go."

BILL:
Well, Coach, what about colonscopies.

NORM:
Well, I think first of all, I want to be very careful and cautious about suggesting exams because there are different exams. So I always just say, stay in close touch with your physician. Go to the doctor. Obviously the colonoscopy is the test that examines all of the intestine, and I believe in that. There are other tests that do not examine all of it, and I like the idea of the colonoscopy, but that is strictly up to the physician. The one thing that Denis said that really brought home something to me is the fact of early detection, again. And people do this. They won't go because they're afraid they'll find something. The most dramatic change, I think, that's been made in research and in cure is in children, thank goodness. And it used to be that a child that suffered from leukemia had a 5 to 10% chance of survival. Today, if they detect leukemia early in a child, he has over a 90% chance of survival. So those are some of the dramatic changes that have been made, and it's all based upon early detection. The only way you're going to do that is to get to your physician.

NEAL:
Let me ask you both a final question, and then we can move into some final comment. You obviously both are out there talking a lot about this issue, and we've seen that for people who are long-term survivors, talking to others is actually good for you as well as for them. But you two are used to being out there in public and talking to people. What would you suggest to folks who want to share their experiences, they want to talk to others. How do they do it? What's the best way to practically get out there and start sharing the word.

DENIS:
Well, I think from my standpoint, I know there are so many service clubs who meet for lunch and there are so many Rotary and Lions and Kiwanis and Optimists clubs who get a luncheon speaker, and that's a local group and they're usually people in your own community, so it's not as threatening when you're getting together with somebody that you know. I think speaking at local service clubs is very important, and maybe being willing to submit to a local interview for a local paper. Obviously, on top of that, there's nothing better than e-mail or cancer chat rooms, because you've got like-minded people who are very interested in the subject, and you remain fairly anonymous and you don't have to speak in front of them. You know, it's a lot easier to e-mail some words than it is maybe to get up and talk in public. So I just suggest getting into all those kinds of forums and really, it'll make you feel a lot better. I mean, if people are getting on the Internet to find the love of their life, why not get on the Internet to get some very positive and may some important sharing of information as well.

NORM:
I'd echo that and say that the groups that you're familiar with are the easiest. Like, when we went to the coaches, now we have some of the great coaches around the country. Jim Bayheim at Syracuse, Roy Williams at Kansas, Mike Montgomery at Stanford, and Denny Crum at Louisville. Outstanding coaches, and again, there's four or five hundred now. So get with people who are familiar with you, and you're familiar with them, you're familiar with their occupation. That is a very good way to go, and become associated, and find out some of the things that you can do.

NEAL:
Any last comments from either of you that you'd like to be sure to share with people listening today?

DENIS:
Well, I'll do it, and then Norman can finish. My brother also was diagnosed, and he's seven years younger, but he didn't even go in for a test until I talked to him. So I think I was instrumental in helping my brother make sure that he got a handle on his situation, and he wouldn't have known or wouldn't have gone in for a test were it not for me encouraging him. And I have two sons, and I'm just telling my sons that the thing I really want them to do, whether it's genetic predisposition or diet or whatever else, or a combination of factors, I want them to be educated. I want them to be proactive and prevention-oriented, so that they get an even earlier look at their health than I did.

NORM:
Well, I would add this. Take care of yourself, and take care of your family, and take care of as many friends as you can. And when I say take care, let them know some of the things that have happened to you, some of the things that could happen to them, and what they really need to do to get into prevention. Be there for someone else, and give a little time. If all of us would just give a little bit of time and a little bit of money, I think we could remove something that has affected everyone in the country. There is no one that has not been affected by cancer.

BILL:
Coach, why don't you give the Coaches vs. Cancer program phone number one more time for the folks.

NORM:
All right. It's 1-800-345 TEAM, and the nice thing about it is you can support your team but you're all on the same team, and that's the fight against cancer.

BILL:
And with that comment, we will close this discussion show, and thank our guests today, Dr. Denis Waitley and Coach Norm Stewart. And now, back to you, Neal.

NEAL:
Thanks, Bill, for serving as our guest host today, and for the ongoing great energy you've been giving to the fight against cancer. For the American Cancer Society's Cancer Survivor's Network, I'm Neal Sofian.