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Talk Shows &
Stories : Caregiver
: Caregiver: Losing your Father to Cancer
Caregiver: Losing your Father to Cancer
Recorded March 13, 2002
Welcome and Participant Introductions
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Glenda Durham:
Hello and welcome to the American Cancer Society's Cancer Survivors
Network. I'm Glenda Durham, your host. Today I will be talking with
three women who were caregivers and lost their fathers to cancer. As a
cancer survivor myself, I am pleased to be your host for today's
conversation as we talk about: taking the time to listen to those you are
giving care to; leaning on spirituality to help get you through your dad's
death and dying; handling friends and family who can't deal with your
dad's cancer; coming to grips with the reality that you are going to lose
your father; helping your mom after your dad is gone; getting on with life
after your dad is gone; and making decisions about continued treatment
versus your dad's quality of life.
Our first guest is Lu, a cancer survivor and caregiver for her father,
who died of cancer in 1993. Lu is 35 years old, lives in Indiana, and is
married with a daughter and a stepdaughter. Thanks for joining us today,
Lu.
Lu:
Thank you for having me. I feel very honored.
Glenda Durham:
We're very glad you're here. Your experience with cancer began at age 13
when you were diagnosed with Wilms' tumor.
Lu:
Correct.
Glenda Durham:
Yes, you received chemotherapy, surgery and radiation, and have been in
remission now for 22 years.
Lu:
Yes.
Glenda Durham:
In 1992 your father, who was suffering from emphysema, was diagnosed with
small-cell lung cancer.
Lu:
Yes.
Glenda Durham:
And his treatment included chemotherapy and radiation since surgical
removal of [the] cancer was not possible.
Lu:
Right.
Glenda Durham:
He lived only nine months after the diagnosis, and during that time, you
were very young and you helped take care of him along with other members
of your family. You were 26.
Lu:
Yeah.
Glenda Durham:
Well, thanks for being here, Lu, and welcome to the program.
Lu:
Thank you.
Glenda Durham:
Our next guest is Marilyn--
Marilyn:
Yes.
Glenda Durham:
--from Louisiana. Marilyn is 55 and married with adult children. She is
a cancer survivor and has been a caregiver for both her mother and her
father. Welcome to the show, Marilyn.
Marilyn:
Thank you. Proud to be here.
Glenda Durham:
Your father was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma of the brain in the
spring of 1983. He was treated with chemotherapy and lived for a year,
spending most of that time at home, and you shared caregiving
responsibilities with others in your family.
Marilyn:
Right.
Glenda Durham:
Your father passed away in March of 1984 and your mother passed away
recently in June of 2001. You, yourself were diagnosed with breast cancer
in 1999 and had a modified radical mastectomy, then chemotherapy followed
by treatment with tamoxifen. Thank you for joining us today, Marilyn.
Marilyn:
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Glenda Durham:
Our next guest is Julie from Indiana. Julie is 43 years old, married and
has three children and was a caregiver to her father. Welcome to the
show, Julie.
Julie:
Thanks. Just glad to be here.
Glenda Durham:
In April of 2001 your father began complaining of lower back pain. After
a series of tests, including a chest x-ray, it was discovered that he had
a tumor in his lung. A CAT scan confirmed it was malignant non-small cell
lung cancer and had spread to his brain, kidney and upper right shoulder.
He went through four weeks of radiation, five days a week, and started
chemo before he finished radiation. The treatments were not effective,
and the cancer spread to his liver and the other lung. After that the
doctor felt there was nothing more to do. You researched clinical trials,
but his doctor told you your dad couldn't get on the list. In August of
2001 your dad passed away. Thank you for joining us today, Julie.
Julie:
Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
Fathers Using Faith To Face Dying
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Glenda Durham:
Lu?
Lu:
Yes?
Glenda Durham:
How did your dad use his faith to help himself face the fact that he was
dying?
Lu:
Oh, that's a tough one because he was never very spiritual before his own
cancer experience, but during--he had a rough childhood. He was born in
the early 1920s and grew up during the depression. His father was a
minister, but also very abusive to the children and to his wife, so my dad
sort of turned his back on religion and spirituality until he found out he
had cancer and was facing his own mortality, and then he--which I, being a
cancer survivor, was always very spiritual, and Dad became much more
spiritual with the diagnosis and then the treatments not being helpful and
all of that. It changed him immensely for the better, and at the very end
he was very ready to go and felt that he would continue to live elsewhere
on another plane of existence or whatever we'd like to call it, and it was
a very peaceful ending because of that spirituality.
Glenda Durham:
Was your father able to use his faith to bring comfort and courage to you
and your family?
Lu:
Yes, he was. Especially to my mother and the other siblings. I am the
youngest of nine children, and at the time that my dad died, there were
seven of us living, and I really took the diagnosis probably better than
my mother and my other siblings did. He helped them cope by saying, "It's
OK. Everybody has to go sometime and it's my time. Please accept it and
let me go." He died very early in the morning, around 4 a.m., and I left
there around midnight that night, and he was begging my mother, "Please
let me go. I don't feel I can let go and leave until you let me, and
everything will be OK. I'll still be there somewhere, so it's not like an
end." Finally, in addition to convincing his other children, he finally
conveyed to my mother, his wife, that everything was going to be OK and it
was OK to move on.
Glenda Durham:
Lu:
It was. I knew as soon as Dad started with this
conversation with Mom about "Please let me go, everything will be OK," I
knew he wouldn't last the rest of the night, but he was ready. They had
given him six months to live. He lived nine months, and I think it was
because Mom and my siblings couldn't let him go. He knew or felt he
couldn't leave without their permission or without their acceptance of him
leaving, and it was very good to finally see that he had that
understanding with them and for them to accept it, and for them to let it
be OK that he was going to leave us.
Glenda Durham:
Thank you.
Lu:
You're welcome.
Glenda Durham:
Marilyn?
Marilyn:
Yes?
Glenda Durham:
How did your father use faith?
Marilyn:
My dad was always a very faithful person. He wasn't a big churchgoer, but
he always taught us that we should rely on God and that we should pray.
I know when he got sick, right at first he took it pretty hard, being
diagnosed at first, and it just came out of the blue and it was something
nobody expected. But I know one night, I guess right after the diagnosis,
I called him, and I could tell he had kind of been crying. And I said,
"Daddy?" I said, "You want me to come up there?" because I wasn't going
that night, and he said, "No." He said, "I need some time just to get
used to the idea. I'm just going to lay here and pray." And he said,
"That's what I want you to do because it's what's going to bring you the
most comfort. I want you to go see your mom and sit and pray with your
mom." He said, "You do the praying and you hold her hand, and it'll get
her through this." So he was very faithful right up to the end, and not
too long before he died he converted to a different religion than the one
he was raised in, just because he felt at home with that religion, and he
felt closer to God with that. I'll never forget that he used to always
tell me that, he'd say, "When I die I'll be smiling because I'll see the
angels." And you know, I was with him when he died, and he did.
[laughs]
Glenda Durham:
Aww!
Marilyn:
So I think that he just had a really deep faith, and I do, too. I know he
instilled that in me when I was young. But as he was dying, I was the
one--when my brother would cry-- so he would call me in, and I would cry
too, but he would tell me what he wanted done. And that he wanted me to
talk to him about how he felt about seeing God; and my little sister was
born stillborn, and he told me to just keep telling Mother that he knew he
was going to see my grandmothers and his daddy and my sister, Carolyn;
that he was finally going to get to be with her; that he had been with us
for 62 years and it was time for him to go be with her.
Glenda Durham:
Hmm.
Marilyn:
I mean he truly believed that, and I'll always believe that's what he saw
the moment he died.
Glenda Durham:
So these were the ways that your dad used to his faith to bring you all
comfort and courage?
Marilyn:
Right, that he believed and he knew everything was going to be OK, and he
might not be here, but he would be here.
Glenda Durham:
Mm-hmm.
Marilyn:
And that he felt like God would not take us apart from each other. That
he would always be with us, and I believe that. I really do.
Glenda Durham:
Now, as we further discover this issue of leaning on spirituality to help
yourselves through your father's death and dying, Julie, how did your
father use his faith to help him face death?
Julie:
Quite frankly, I don't think he did. My dad was the type of man who
believed in God, but my dad always believed that once you die, you die and
that's it. There's nothing else. And I was the one, I was the one who
tried to bring the spirituality into him, and once he found out he was
sick, he just gave up. I mean he literally gave up. It was like God
handed him a raw deal. My daddy didn't just suffer from cancer. My daddy
had a heart attack at the age of 38, had open heart surgery at the age of
45, had a second open heart surgery at the age of 60, and after that
second open heart surgery, got a staph infection from the surgery and was
in the hospital with his chest wide open for two months.
Glenda Durham:
Mercy!
Julie:
We thought we were going to lose him then. We never in our wildest dreams
thought we would lose our daddy to cancer. We thought it would always be
his heart and then when he was diagnosed with the cancer--it wasn't just
us that thought we'd lose him by his heart, he believed it too. He
believed that he would die in his sleep one day. And when he got cancer,
I think he just threw up his arms and thought--and his remark to me was,
"God can only give you as much as you can handle," and Daddy couldn't
handle the cancer. When he got so sick and he would start kind of talking
off the wall a little bit and talking about, you know, he'd say something
about God or something, and then he'd kind of shake his head at me, and
I'd look at him and I'd say, "Daddy, if you don't believe that there is
not anything after you die, then you better start thinking differently," I
said, "because there is!" This was not a man who was ready to go. This
was not a man--he had just turned 67 five days before he died, and he was
not ready to go. We were the ones that had to say, "You've got to go.
You've got to go. We will be OK." Until me and my brothers both told him
that. It took my mom, the night before he died was the night she told
him, because I told her, I said, "Mom, he's hanging on for you." And I
said, "Until you tell him, he's not going to go anywhere." I said,
"Because he doesn't want to go." And he wants to make sure everybody is
going to be OK. I said, "We have already told him, Mom." I said, "You've
got to tell him." And you know, I'm hoping that by the time his death
came that I imbedded in him some spirituality, some something to make him
believe that he's going to be OK. That he is going to be in a better
place, and I truly believe that now that he's gone that he realizes I was
right. I've got to believe that to keep my sanity. But it was not my
dad's spirituality that got us through. My spirituality got me through
it, but my daddy, I just got upset with him and cried over it and kept
making sure that he had spirituality because I just know he was just
frustrated that he had been dealt so many raw hands with health-wise. It
is a raw hand and unfortunately some of us get that and unfortunately it
was my dad.
Lu:
This is Luann. Can I please make a comment about that?
Glenda Durham:
Sure!
Lu:
I feel that it's not a raw hand. I mean, I don't mean to contradict you,
but I did have a Wilms' tumor at age 13. I lost both of my parents when I
was relatively young. My father and my father-in-law both died of
small-cell lung cancer. My husband with his first marriage, his first
daughter died of a crib death--two of my siblings committed suicide.
It's not been an easy road, but I personally feel that nothing is
guaranteed. Nothing is promised to us. We're not promised a tomorrow.
I feel that every day is a gift for everyone.
Julie:
I didn't mean--I was not meaning that God dealt him a raw hand. I just
mean that my dad was just dealt a raw hand health-wise. Not meaning
anything by that. It's just the way that I say things.
Glenda Durham:
Julie, let me ask you this. Were there any times that you felt angry with
God or if you had a crisis of faith?
Julie:
No! No! I never felt angry with God, because God doesn't--we are the
people who are responsible for us, for our health. We make our own
choices. God didn't put us down here and make our choices for us. We
make our own choices. Now, my father was a smoker until he had his first
open-heart surgery, and then he quit. Those type of things, those are our
choices. We eat unhealthy. Those are our choices. I wasn't angry with
God. Was I hurt and wondering why? Why, why, why? You know, why does Dad
have to have these illnesses all the time? Why him, you know? Yeah, I
asked those questions, but those aren't answers I will ever get until the
day I die. So I was more upset and hurt that I just couldn't help my
father, and I know all of us have a time, whether we be very young or very
old. My grandmother, my dad's own mother passed away just last March at
95 years old, and I think, geez! My dad's brother died at the age of 40.
His dad died at the age of 70-some years old, his mother died at 95, my
dad died at 67, and you just think--I guess I'm just lucky to have had him
that long, I guess. Then you just got to be thankful that you had him
around that long, because I could have lost my dad 10 years ago to his
heart.
Glenda Durham:
Mm-hmm.
Julie:
And I believe God gave him--I believe that God gave him even more chances.
You know, that was a way of God saying, "OK. I'm not going to take you
this time because it's not your time."
Glenda Durham:
Mm-hmm.
Julie:
But I wasn't angry. I just was more hurt, that's all.
Glenda Durham:
Let me ask all of you. Do you view the role of faith in your own lives
differently now, and do you use it differently after the passing of your
fathers?
Marilyn:
This is Marilyn, and I would have to say I don't--it's not so much the
occurrence as it is more acceptance. I think something one of you said a
while ago that when Daddy got sick, I mean, he was always like, other than
my husband, number one person in my life, and at first it was like, "Why
Daddy?" He's only 61 years old and he was just getting ready to retire,
and you know, all the questions, why, why, why? And then Daddy told me,
he said, "Why not me?" This has happened and sometimes it's your time,
and you may not think you're old enough, but you know, God does.
[laughs]
Glenda Durham:
[laughs]
Marilyn:
He tried to help accept it that way, so I think I've become more accepting
of it. I know when Mother got sick last April, she called in each one of
the grandkids individually and told them that this is something to be
accepted. I'm ready to go and so on and so forth. I think my faith has
grown as far as the strength of it, and then when I got sick myself the
first thing I thought was, "Well, why not me?" I don't smoke and I don't
drink and all that kind of stuff, so I think it just happened, but you
know, why not? It's got to happen to somebody, and I had the faith and
strength to handle it, so maybe that's why. I think my faith is a lot
stronger because of the way they handled their faith through the death
process.
Caregivers: Taking Time To Listen
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Glenda Durham:
Let's talk about taking the time to listen to those you are caring for.
Marilyn? How important was it for your dad to get others to listen to
him, and why?
Marilyn:
It was real important, and having been through it myself I understand it
better now than I did then. But we would be talking and sometimes I would
say, "Daddy, don't say that." You know how you do. He'd be saying, "I'm
not going to be here next Christmas," or whatever. "Well Daddy, don't say
that." And he would say, "No. I need you to listen to me. I need you to
hear what I'm saying. I need you to pay attention." It took me a while
to be able to do that, but he told me not too long before he died that
that was something really important to him was that I would start--I got
to where I went over Saturday mornings just kind of like a regular thing,
and we would watch stupid crazy comedies together like "The Three
Stooges," and he would just talk and I wouldn't say anything, and I'd say,
"Well, yeah, Daddy. That's right, I know." And he'd say, "This is really
hard." He just wanted somebody to hear him. He had to be able to talk
about it and not be hushed-up, and that was a really, really important
thing to him. He couldn't do it with mother. She'd just go to pieces and
so that was real important to him, and it became something that I'll
treasure all my life.
Lu:
This is Luann, and I feel the same way. My dad was the same way--things
that we never talked about before. For example, he was a veteran of World
War II and would never talk about it, although I love history and I
thought it was so interesting, but he wouldn't discuss it. But when he
knew he wouldn't be around forever, he started, when it was just me and
him, like you said, it sounds like maybe our fathers looked at us as maybe
the strong ones?
Marilyn:
Yeah, I think he did.
Lu:
Yeah. Dad would tell me things that him and--that he did during the
war--he's been to war in Holland--just stories that meant so much to me
that he knew, or I felt he knew, that I would pass down to my nieces and
nephews and my children--silly things like Dad was a big baseball fan and
I would never watch baseball games with him, but when he was so sick, if
Dad wanted to watch a baseball game we watched a baseball game. There
were things that Mom needed, a new faucet. Hers was dripping. He wanted
me to do that, and he wanted to tell me how to do that, although I had
what, five brothers who could have done it easily, or my husband or my
brother-in-law, but no, he wanted me to do it. He told me what he wanted
to be buried in, and other people, like you had said, couldn't handle it,
whereas I could handle it, and I think Dad knew that. So that's why he
talked to me--some of it very meaningful, like, "I want to be buried in
this," and "This is how I want my funeral," and other silly things like
the baseball game, but I think it was very important for both of us. It
was a good bonding experience.
Glenda Durham:
Thank you for that. Did others of you find specific things that your
fathers needed to talk about?
Julie:
This is Julie. My relationship with my daddy was so close that there was
nothing that wasn't ever said between us. There was nothing that we
needed to share with one another. Even though I knew, my dad never wanted
to accept that he was dying, and the same goes with my brothers. There
wasn't a day that went by that my dad never told me he loved me. I mean,
he always told me he loved me, always told me how proud he was of me, and
vice versa. We hugged every time we saw each other, and when he got so
sick my dad withdrew. He wasn't--he didn't want to carry on conversation,
and I know because it was so emotional for him, because in his heart,
whether he wanted to accept it or not, he knew he was dying, and the last
thing he wanted to do was try to talk about things that were going to be
very hard for him and things that he already knew that we knew. I wanted
to talk to him at one point, I'm a better letter-writer than I am a talker
in person, and I used to be that way when I was a kid. My parents always
used to kid me, "Yeah, you want to talk to Julie, get a note from
her."
[laughter]
Julie:
I sat down, I can't tell you how many nights until 3 o'clock in the
morning, from the time my daddy found out he was sick, trying to write him
a letter, putting everything in this letter that I could possibly think of
that I maybe never shared with him. I tore every single one up, and I
finally came to realize the reason I could not write that letter was
because he already knew everything.
[laughter]
Julie:
There was nothing that I couldn't tell him that he didn't already
know.
Lu:
I'd say you were both very lucky there.
Julie:
I was extremely lucky to have the family that I have, and my parents
didn't have their plots, and when it came time that my mom really had to
face the fact that Dad was dying, I said, "Mom, I've got to get the
plots." She said, "Oh, my God, Honey, I can't do that." I said, "I'll go
do it. I'll go do it." That was the hardest thing I've ever done in my
life was to try to pick out two plots for my mom and dad, and I had to go
by myself because my brothers were working. I didn't want to worry them
and go to the funeral home and make those arrangements two weeks before he
passed. I just wanted to go ahead and just get it done, and my dad had
told me years ago, when my mother's mom passed away, he took me back to
that casket room and he said, "Julie, I want to show you something." He
said, "When I die, this is the casket that I want." He said, "People get
too emotional during these times and they buy the most expensive casket."
He said, "I want this blue cloth one." Well, I didn't get it for him
because I didn't want him to have the blue cloth one, but I got the
upgrade, and I kept telling the guy at the funeral home, I said, "I hope
he's not mad at me--"
[laughter]
Julie:
"--because when he dies he is not in this blue cloth one." [laughs] God
love him! But anyhow, my point is being that my daddy and I, there wasn't
a lot of words spoken when he was sick, but there didn't have to be. We
already knew. Just being there with him and holding his hand was all he
wanted.
Dealing With Other Family Members
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Glenda Durham:
Well, let me ask you very briefly, were there things, all of you, that you
did in order to get other family members and friends to take the time to
listen to your father?
Lu:
This is Luann. A lot of talking and a lot of begging, explaining to them
that no matter what they thought, Dad would not be OK, and they could not
ignore that and pretend that this would blow over and Dad would be OK and
would still be there. It was very hard, in fact I'm not sure I convinced
anyone, maybe one brother that if things aren't said, you need to get it
out because Dad would not be here forever. This is the beginning of the
end, and that was very hard, very hard for family members to understand
and to see and to accept.
Glenda Durham:
I want to share something with all of you right now. Friday morning I'm
going to be flying to see my father.
Lu:
Mm-hmm.
Glenda Durham:
And I kind of, in a way, think that it may be one of the last times I may
have a chance to do this. And I want to thank you all for helping to
address this communication issue, because I think it is an agony for ever
so many families.
Lu:
Oh, it is.
Glenda Durham:
Now, did your family get outside support from groups or friends that made
a real difference in this process?
Marilyn:
This is Marilyn, and my family did not. We kind of leaned on each other,
but they didn't look for a support group other than our pastor. That was
it. Kind of needed it afterwards, because we didn't do anything before,
and I think we kind of just handled it each our own way. I know my brother
told me, in fact he didn't tell me until Mother died, which was 17 years
later, [laughs] that he was really glad that I had convinced him that he
needed to talk to Daddy, because every time I would say, "You know, you
need to let him talk and let him, if he wants to tell you what he wants us
to do for Momma after he's gone and all, you need to let him do that,
because," I said, "it's for his peace of mind. Let him go in peace
knowing that we know what he wants." At first my brother was always like,
"Oh, you're being so negative, and we're going to save him, and you know
so I'm going to go forth," and I kept telling him, I said, "It's not a
negative thing. It's going to happen, and if it doesn't praise God, but
we need to be prepared, and we need to let him feel at peace with this."
I know he was real thankful later that I had talked him into that.
[laughs]
Glenda Durham:
Well, now you've all told us wonderful things about how you were able to
handle the people who could work with the problem. How did you handle
friends and family who could not deal with your father's cancer? Were
there family members or friends that seemed to disappear because of the
cancer?</p.
Lu:
There was in my family. This is Luann, I'm sorry. Coming from a large
family--like I said before, I am the youngest child and my oldest sister
was 22, married with a 2-year-old daughter when I was born, so it would
seem that I would be the baby of the family and sheltered, la-di-da, but
that's not the way it was. For some reason, I don't know why it turned
out that way. I don't know if it was because of my own cancer or what,
but it wound up that I was the strong one and I could guide the other
ones, my other siblings. I still have two brothers that have a hard time
even looking at me because they felt that I should have been able to do
something and I couldn't. I think the rest of the family understood that
I couldn't, but I could help them get through it and help Mom and Dad get
through it, but there was nothing I could do, and that's kind of tough,
you know, after all these years.
Glenda Durham:
It must be. Do you feel that some of the people that maybe stepped out of
the circle did so because they were facing fears regarding their own
mortality?
Lu:
Yes. Very much. I think so.
Glenda Durham:
Well, let me ask you, how did all of the lack of support that materialized
affect your father and did it affect you?
Marilyn:
This is Marilyn. It affected me more in my own case, more than it did
Dad's, because the way he handled it was he told us just to pray for those
family members that couldn't handle it and understand that they just, they
couldn't accept it and they couldn't deal with it and so they didn't mean
to shut him out. That was just their way of dealing with their own pain,
which is a great attitude. I really could have used it more myself.
[laughs] I think it's that they're faced with their own mortality. Maybe
that fear that they don't know what to say, when a lot of times all you
have to do is just sit there and listen.
Glenda Durham:
Mm-hmm. Have you had contact with people who needed to stay away since
the death and how have they reacted?
Marilyn:
I really haven't. [laughs]
Lu:
This is Luann. I have. I have one brother who--my mother died two years
ago, and like two days after my father did, and one of my brothers did not
even pick up the phone and call her, come visit, anything after Dad died
until Mom's funeral when Mom was at the showing at the funeral home. He
came in, didn't want to leave the funeral home, which that was really
heart-wrenching because he missed so much and it was not healthy and not
healthy for him at all either, and it's a shame.
Glenda Durham:
Let me ask the rest of you, do you ever reach a place where hurting from
your loss stops?
Julie:
This is Julie. No. [laughs] The answer to that is "no." I have--I still
cry every day. I still go visit my dad. When he first passed I
probably--I mean, where he's buried at is 25 minutes from my house, and
when he was first passed I was there almost every day, and now I know I
don't have to go there for him to be there or to be around me. I know
he's around me everywhere I am, but I find comfort there because it's the
last place. It was the last place, and my pain, has it gotten less?
Yes, because I try not to think about it as much, but you know, as close
as I was and as close as my family is it's like I still have to pinch
myself. I literally have to pinch myself and tell myself he's not here.
It's still like a nightmare to me. It truly is. I accept his death and I
have to accept his death, but the selfish part of me wants him back. I
want to touch him. I want to feel him. I want to kiss his little cheek.
I want to dance with him again and I can't do that anymore. I can't walk
into Mom and Dad's house and say, "Hi, Daddy," and he says, "There's my
little girl." I can't hear that anymore, and that's painful. The pain is
still there. The pain is still as hard. I get through every day though,
without as much sorrow, trying to move on as he would want me to, but it's
still very painful.
Marilyn:
This is Marilyn, and I have to agree with that. As I said, my dad and I
had a very close relationship. Although I have a brother, I was the one
that went fishing with him [laughs] and stuff like that, and watched
football and baseball with him. I'm a big sports fan because of him.
But I never cease to feel the fact that he's not with me anymore here
where I can say, "Daddy, I love you." And just call him up about things
about the kids because he was a great grandfather. The hurt just never
goes away. My dad was a body mechanic when I was younger, on cars, and he
had really big hands, and to this day there's a song called "Daddy's
Hands," and if it comes on the radio or if I'm anywhere around, my husband
knows he's got to get it off--I will just go to pieces. But, it never
stops hurting. I mean, it hasn't for me. I accept that he's gone, but it
still hurts.
Glenda Durham:
What do you think will help you move forward?
Marilyn:
Myself, this is Marilyn, just knowing that in my heart, my faith is that
we do meet again, and knowing that someday I will be with Mom and Dad and
my little sister and everybody again. I really believe that, and so that
helps me to move on, and I know Daddy would not want me to be constantly
sad. That's the last thing he would want. He was full of fun and always
picking and always laughing, and I know at his funeral we were laughing
like we were at a comedy review over things that he had done and ways he
had made us laugh growing up. So I know that's what he would want for me.
So I've moved on, but I still miss him. That will just never go away.
Luann:
This is Luann, and I agree. I feel like I'll always miss Dad, but maybe
with time it gets easier, and I feel like we will meet again and that
makes it OK and more acceptable.
Taking Care Of Mom After Dad Is Gone
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Glenda Durham:
Let's talk about helping your mom after your dad is gone. Luann, role
reversals can be very difficult in the best of circumstances.
Luann:
Right.
Glenda Durham:
As an adult child taking care of a parent, what were some of the
difficulties you experienced?
Luann:
Well, for one thing I was working full-time and I had a three-year-old
daughter which my parents had always babysat, so she was very attached to
both my parents, and at three years old she couldn't really understand,
where's Papaw? My mom never drove a vehicle, so that made it hard because
she couldn't go anywhere unless someone took her. I was off two days a
week at that time, and those two days a week were devoted to Mom to taking
her wherever she wanted to go, doing what Mom wanted to do. That was kind
of hard, instead of being able to clean house, and me and my daughter
having fun those days, which I'm not saying we didn't have fun, but doing
whatever a three-year-old wanted to do. We did for my mother and took her
wherever she needed to go, and watched out for her to make sure she was OK
and she wasn't getting depressed, and doing the things that she needed to
do to get out.
Glenda Durham:
OK. Now, Marilyn, Lu has shared with us some of the logistical choices
that she has had to deal with in this process. How were the emotional
relationships between you and your mom through this, as you were
essentially the caregiver parent?
Marilyn:
Really good. I mean, we were always close. Mom was always my friend. I
mean, she was my mother and she was very strict, [laughs] but she was
still--as I became an adult she became my friend, and we did a lot of
things together. We always did. We'd go shopping together, and when I
was off from school I always made sure we went out to lunch at least once,
things like that. So we were very close, and she was determined that she
would not be a burden to my brother and I, so I think the hardest thing
for us was to convince her that, like if we invited her over to spend the
night or have a meal or whatever, or take her out to eat that we weren't
just trying to be nice. We really wanted to be with her and we really
enjoyed her company, and she told me once, she said, "There's really
nothing you can do to ease what I feel," because they were together so
long, but we tried, and we spent a lot of time with her, and I always did,
right up until the day she died, but as far as--I don't feel like our
relationship changed or anything like that, because we were always very
close. Luckily. I was very lucky to be close to both my parents.
Glenda Durham:
Yes, that is fortunate. Julie, how did you face this?
Julie:
Well, obviously it was very hard, but by the same token, my mom and I and
my brothers, when they were around--you know, my mom cried a lot in front
of me, but she also tried to be strong. She wanted to be strong in front
of her kids so she wouldn't show her emotions, but my mom is a strong
lady. She always has been, but it was me talking to her, because I really
believe my mom was in denial for a long time in regards to my daddy really
dying. One day she just looked at me--and I had already come to terms
that Daddy was going to die. It was a matter of time, and she looked at
me one day, because there would be times that she would get angry with my
dad because it got to a point where when I was there, and Mom and I would
be sitting in the kitchen, and he would be sitting on his recliner and
she'd feed him something and it wasn't right.
Glenda Durham:
Mm-hmm.
Julie:
You know. It didn't taste right. It had too much pepper, and one day she
just got angry and came in the kitchen, and she says, "I just can't please
him." I said, "Mom. He is sick!"
Another voice:
Mm-hmm.
Julie:
She says, "Well, you know, he just wants me to do everything for him." I
said, "Mom, he's sick!" And it finally came to one day, and she just
looked at me and she said, "Julie, I don't think he's getting better." I
said, "Mom, he's dying." I said, "Don't you see that?" I said, "Daddy is
dying." And she said, "Oh, honey, don't say that." And you know, it just
took her a long time. You know, it took me a long time. I just had to
face the fact, but I'm the daughter and she's the wife. She was with him
for 45 years of married life, so it was very, very hard for her, but I
helped, I think I helped her keep strong, and I--but she was able to cry
with me. We shared our emotions. We cried together, and that was good.
It's good to be able to cry with your mom and your siblings.
Another voice:
Mm-hmm.
Julie:
To show your emotions and yet still be strong for them when they need
it.
Glenda Durham:
Well, let me ask all of you. You've been through this unbelievably
intense experience. How did your mother--excuse me. How did your
relationship with your mother change after losing your father to
cancer?
Lu:
This is Luann. I feel that, like you had stated earlier, there was sort
of a role reversal. It was sort of like I was 26 years old and my mom was
like 64, but it was like I was taking care of her and guiding her and
supporting her rather than the way things had always been where she was
guiding me and supporting me and taking care of me. It was more reversed
after we lost Dad, and during the time that Dad was so sick. And it, I
guess, made me grow up more and helped me mature more for my age, but
still yet I think it's something that a lot of people don't
experience.
Getting On With Life After Losing Your Dad
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Glenda Durham:
Let's talk about getting on with life after your father is gone. Many
people naively think that after such a devastating event you can go back
to your old normal way of living. Instead, you have to create a new
normal that includes the loss of a loved one. How have each of you
created that new normal? Let's start with Marilyn.
Marilyn:
Oh, golly. That's a tough one. [laughs] It was really tough for me
because up until the year before Dad died I had not--I had stopped working
to raise kids, and he came home every day for lunch and I went over there
at least once a week and brought the kids to see him and spent lunch with
him, and most of the time it was like two and three times a week.
[laughs] It was really hard adjusting after that, not only for me, but for
my children. I really had to focus on them a lot to get myself through
it. By focusing on them and trying to be the kind of parent I felt like
he wanted me to be, my dad did, and trying to be as good a parent as he
and Mom were to me, that helped me a lot. Like I said, I'm a teacher, and
I would find myself, and I don't think I did this consciously, and to this
day I find myself quoting--my dad had all these great little sayings. He
had a saying for everything. [laughs] And to this day I find myself
quoting those things to even my children or even my students, and I think
that was one way to get back to normal. To keep him with me, you know,
that I've never forgotten all those little things he told me. You know,
like "if life hands you a lemon, make lemonade." He had something for
everything, and I think that was one way to keep him alive in my mind
maybe, and to keep him alive for my children, but basically it was just
focusing on my children that got me through.
Glenda Durham:
Julie?
Julie:
I still think I'm trying to create my normalcy of life right now. It's
only been six months since my daddy's passed, so I'm still in a pretty
high grieving point right now. But what I have done is create and make my
life happier than it was, because the whole time my daddy was sick I was a
very, very sad person, and I'm not as sad a person anymore, so I've gone
on. I've moved forward with my life. My relationship with my family was
obsolete during the time my daddy was sick because I was there all the
time, and so my husband and my children were put behind. And now I'm
trying to make up for some lost time that I put there. We didn't get a
summer vacation last year because of my daddy, and there was no way I was
going to leave for a week with him being sick, and so my kids lost out on
that, too. And it's not like I feel like I hurt them by that, but I feel
like, I need to make up for it a little bit, you know? I didn't give them
the summer, and so I'm trying to create some home time and spending time
with my family that I lacked on during the time my daddy was really
sick.
Glenda Durham:
Thank you. Luann?
Lu:
Yes. Well with me, having a three-year-old child, and my parents were the
only babysitter I had ever had for Ashley, and that was really rough
because I was used to Dad being there. You know, Mom and Dad both. If
Mom wasn't having a good day or wasn't feeling well, then Dad was there to
play with Ashley or fix her--warm up her food or whatever, and I knew
that. And then, of course, the questions that a three-year-old has,
"Where's Papaw?" And her not really saying it, but not understanding what
we meant that Papaw wasn't here anymore, that he went to heaven to be with
Jesus. I think that was the hardest thing, and trying to balance that in
itself was very difficult for me. And trying to accept that things would
never be the same for me or my daughter, and in many ways the fact that I
had to do more for Mom, and somehow I did it. Somehow it worked, and I
felt that it worked well, but it was rough. It was not a piece of cake,
but we made it and we did it. And I do feel it's a very long grieving
process. You don't get over it in a couple of months. It takes a long
time. I still miss Dad and Mom. I think I always will. I think time
does ease the pang, but I don't think it takes it away.
Julie:
This is Julie. No. I know that with my daddy
there's a part of me that's gone that I'll never get back.
Lu:
Mm-hmm. I agree.
Marilyn:
Mm-hmm. I do, too. I fully agree with that.
Glenda Durham:
Were other family members able to help you get on with your life?
Lu:
This is Luann, and in my case, no. I feel that there, again, that I was
the strong one that was more capable of getting over it easier than the
other family members, and that was rough too, because I felt that I was
sort of the guide and had to set the example.
Glenda Durham:
In going through this process, is there anything you have learned about
yourselves? Have you grown through these experiences?
Julie:
This is Julie. Yes. I would definitely say that I have grown through
these experiences. I have experienced for the first time in my life the
loss of somebody that I loved very dearly and never experienced that in my
whole entire life that extremely close to me. It's made me grow. It's
made me a stronger person and it's made me realize how short life really
is, that you don't know tomorrow whether you're going to die, whether
you're going to be diagnosed with some disease. You just have to be
thankful every day for your health and for the family that you have.
Lu:
Amen! [laughs]
Marilyn:
Amen! [laughs]
Glenda Durham:
After the death of a loved one, people find it difficult to express
themselves out of fear that they are going to say the wrong thing. What
would be some of the words you would have liked to have heard or the words
that you did hear that brought you comfort?
Marilyn:
This is Marilyn. The thing that helped me the most and my brother and I,
it's just my brother and I. It's always been just my brother and I, and,
we're very close and always have been, but the thing that helped me the
most if he did it or even if a friend came and did it, was just saying, "I
love you." You know, "I'm sorry this happened and I love you." It wasn't
the "Can I do anything for you?"--that kind of thing. It was just
somebody being there and holding my hand. I have a friend that I have
been friends with since fourth grade, have been friends with since fourth
grade, and she drove in by herself from Texas to be with me.
Glenda Durham:
Hmm.
Marilyn:
I mean, she's real close to my parents, too, but I mean just to be here.
And we didn't get to talk a lot because you know what funeral homes are
like.
Another voice:
Mm-hmm.
Marilyn:
But she was there. And every time I would get sad, I would look, and
there she was, you know? And I know my brother just, him and I just both
kept saying, reminding each other we loved each other, especially after we
lost Mom this past summer, we're alone now. It's just him and I. That's
all that's left of this side of the family, and our children, and to me
that was the greatest thing, just to know that somebody cared. You know,
all I had to hear was, "I care and I love you." And people didn't even
have to come. It was just knowing that they cared. They'd call or send a
card or whatever, and that was enough for me. So that's what helped me
the most.
Glenda Durham:
Looking back, are there things you wished you had done that might have
helped you or made it easier for you to get on with your life?
Julie:
This is Julie. You know what? I don't think I would have done anything
differently. Quite frankly, I did everything I think I possibly could
have, from the time my daddy was diagnosed to the day my daddy passed
away. For my own sake I researched cancer, what kind of cancer he had, I
mean, I swear to you it was every night 'til three o'clock in the morning
on the Internet. I was bound and determined to find a cure. I mean, I
was bound and determined. When I realized I couldn't find that cure is
when I finally knew that I had to let go, but I wouldn't have done
anything differently because I learned a lot. I learned so much through
that whole experience. It was just a very growing experience for me and I
don't think anything would have changed my grieving, and I don't feel like
I forgot or wished that I would have done something differently.
Glenda Durham:
Thank you. Anybody else?
Lu:
This is Luann. If I had it to do over, I would have spent more time with
Dad and trying to comfort him more, talk to him more about the transition,
and sometimes it bothers me that I didn't. That I didn't spend time
telling him that I felt that we would meet again and those type of things,
and that I knew what he was going through after being through cancer
myself. That I knew the treatments were horrible and that life was not
easy going through cancer treatments, and just shared more with him. I
feel that I listened to him, like we talked about earlier, but I'm not
sure that I said everything that maybe needed to be said or that I could
have said.
Marilyn:
This is Marilyn. I kind of regret that I didn't spend--I mean, I spent a
lot of time, you know, I really did, and I don't know that I could have
spent any more with everything that my kids were involved in and so on and
so forth, but I do regret I didn't spend a little more, maybe--I don't
know. Maybe there were times I could have that I used something else as
an excuse, and I do regret that just a little bit, but I know I spent a
lot of time with him, but I guess it's just never enough, and I felt like
maybe my kids could have spent more time with him, too, although he really
didn't want them around when things got really bad. I mean, he didn't
want them constantly around. They could come see him, but he didn't want
them to stay too long, but that's really my only regret.
Glenda Durham:
I want to personally thank all of you for a wonderful and very brave
exploration of this extremely painful topic. You have given all of us
food for thought, guidance and real wisdom, and it is very wonderful of
you to be here and to share these thoughts with people, because a lot of
people need to hear what you've had to say today.
Marilyn:
Thank you.
Lu:
Thank you for this opportunity.
Julie:
Thank you, Glenda. I appreciate it.
Marilyn:
Yes, me too. Thank you very much.
Glenda Durham:
All right, and in closing, I hope our discussion has helped you with some
of the issues that may be part of your life. I want to thank our guests,
Lu, Marilyn and Julie, for their willingness to share their stories,
thoughts, feelings, and part of their lives with us today. I hope some of
their experiences will help you think about and talk about your own
concerns in healing ways. I encourage you to listen to other discussions
we have available on the Web site at www.cancer.org and on the telephone by
calling
1-877-333-HOPE. That's 1-877-333-HOPE. For the American Cancer Society's
Cancer Survivors Network, I'm Glenda Durham, wishing each of you a great
day, today and every day.
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